If it's all a fantasy, why even live it?

[Shin]

Just now, Sockrattes said:

According to the Buddha this "oneness" Leo spoke about in this thread, is called Samsara and it is literally endless suffering (dukkha). And Nirvana is breaking out of this cycle.

Buddha also said to never believe anything that isn't in your direct experience, whoever said it, even him.

[Sockrattes]

2 minutes ago, Shin said:

Buddha also said to never believe anything that isn't in your direct experience, whoever said it, even him.

I don't think we are speaking about two different things here.

To check this I would like to ask the following question:

Last night I was on the verge of getting reincarnated!

Do you think this statement is or could be true or am i just making that up?

[Arhattobe]

@Sockrattes Didn’t say he doesn’t have a point. The Buddha understood and realized nothingness way before his enlightenment. Years before. If you read the story. All this non dual gibberish. Happened to the Buddha in the beginning of his path.

Having a glimpse and the interpretations you come to from glimpses or even low states of enlightenment isn’t worth much. That’s what the Buddha realized. That’s why each time after realising everything a teacher had to offer through “direct experience” he said next. Next. Next.

The 4 noble truths come from the teachings of such a man, and have stranded the test of time. Millenia have passed and many enlightened people of many stages have reaffirmed their truth. 

That vs people that trip. Have a glimpse into something. Then come down to egoic consciousness and let us hijack and pervert each of those seeings. Wrong conclusions and interpretations.

 

Neither buddha nor Jesus, nor Nanak nor any enlightened being in any state worth being in spouted such simplistic, non nuanced, extremely nihilistic, and ultimately lifeless nonesense.

 

@Shin asides the 4 noble truths. They had to be taken on faith for the Seeker to even embark on the path.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Arhattobe

[Shin]

2 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@Sockrattes Didn’t say he doesn’t have a point. The Buddha understood and realized nothingness way before his enlightenment. Years before. If you read the story. All this non dual gibberish. Happened to the Buddha in the beginning of his path.

Having a glimpse and the interpretations you come to from glimpses or even low states of enlightenment isn’t worth much. That’s what the Buddha realized. That’s why each time after realising everything a teacher had to offer through “direct experience” he said next. Next. Next.

The 4 noble truths come from the teachings of such a man, and have stranded the test of time. Millenia have passed and many enlightened people of many stages have reaffirmed their truth. 

That vs people that trip. Have a glimpse into something. Then come down to egoic consciousness and let us hijack and pervert each of those seeings. Wrong conclusions and interpretations.

 

Neither buddha nor Jesus, nor Nanak nor any enlightened being in any state worth being in spouted such simplistic, non nuanced, extremely nihilistic, and ultimately lifeless nonesense.

 

Complaining about someone who helps other ?

Sounds like you aren't living your greater jihad yet. ?

Don't worry, one day you'll have the balls ??

[ivankiss]

Because this fantasy is the realest thing that will ever be.

It's flawless.

[Shadowraix]

When people hear it's all an illusion it often becomes escapeism to the mind to not see reality as real. But you must consider that real and illusion are one in the same.

This is as real as real gets. You are here so why not participate.

[Sockrattes]

6 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@Sockrattes Didn’t say he doesn’t have a point. The Buddha understood and realized nothingness way before his enlightenment. Years before. If you read the story. All this non dual gibberish. Happened to the Buddha in the beginning of his path.

Having a glimpse and the interpretations you come to from glimpses or even low states of enlightenment isn’t worth much. That’s what the Buddha realized. That’s why each time after realising everything a teacher had to offer through “direct experience” he said next. Next. Next.

The 4 noble truths come from the teachings of such a man, and have stranded the test of time. Millenia have passed and many enlightened people of many stages have reaffirmed their truth. 

That vs people that trip. Have a glimpse into something. Then come down to egoic consciousness and let us hijack and pervert each of those seeings. Wrong conclusions and interpretations.

 

Neither buddha nor Jesus, nor Nanak nor any enlightened being in any state worth being in spouted such simplistic, non nuanced, extremely nihilistic, and ultimately lifeless nonesense.

 

@Shin asides the 4 noble truths. They had to be taken on faith for the Seeker to even embark on the path.

I'm extremely confused by this post to be honest.

1. Why do you feel attacked? We are just a bunch of dudes who are discussing religious teachings.

2. Where can i find this story of Buddha you are speaking off? What is the source? I would like to know if Buddha realised non-duality before his enlightenment. I would like to read about those things you are saying about Buddha myself.

3. You mean "the four noble truth" are NOT Buddhas teachings?

4. What teaching or which school of thought are you proposing if not non-duality? I think @Shin suggest you are muslim. Is that right?

[GeoLura]

It's all ONE. Fantasy, illusion, real as fuck, infinite, nothing, consciousness, You. One contains everything, brah. It's not just a fantasy, brah.

[Arhattobe]

@Shin If I help you take 10 steps but that which helped you take ten steps. Those words limit you from further improvement. That is still not good. 

Leo is a good dude and he helped a lot of people, but his overconfidence in his opinions, and the teachings which have helped many on here. Also limit people on here.

I don’t understand the reference of the jihad thing, but I’ve tried my best to help as well. Have dedicated 3-4 hours daily up until recently with students, being active in different communities and etc. 

@Sockrattes I do not feel attacked. Merely frustrated at the lack of self honesty, lifelessness and the amount spiritual bypassing that goes on here. All which will greatly limit and delude everyone on here that is guilty of what I said.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/buddha.html You can read the story of the Buddha there. In the story the Buddha meets a “master” and realised through direct experience the dimension of nothingness. Yet the limitations of nothingness become clear to him. He still has cravings. His mind still not under control. He continues. Teacher, after teacher. Until no teacher is of any use anymore. 

Buddhas liberation and enlightenment is not mere non duality. It is the complete cleansing of the mind. Total eradication of all cravings.

I am not a Muslim. Theravada Buddhism is the best, most complete teaching, and I never said the 4 noble truths are not buddhas teachings. Don’t understand why you think I did.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Arhattobe

[ivankiss]

@Mikael89 It seems like nowdays there are more fake buddha quotes than real ones

[TheAvatarState]

I actually can't understand why you WOULDN'T want to live it! Isn't the whole point of a "fantasy" something that you dream about and want? That crazy, mystical experience that was beyond your wildest dreams? Well, that IS reality! Like, I really don't understand this question! 

[Sockrattes]

1 hour ago, Arhattobe said:

@Shin If I help you take 10 steps but that which helped you take ten steps. Those words limit you from further improvement. That is still not good. 

Leo is a good dude and he helped a lot of people, but his overconfidence in his opinions, and the teachings which have helped many on here. Also limit people on here.

I don’t understand the reference of the jihad thing, but I’ve tried my best to help as well. Have dedicated 3-4 hours daily up until recently with students, being active in different communities and etc. 

@Sockrattes I do not feel attacked. Merely frustrated at the lack of self honesty, lifelessness and the amount spiritual bypassing that goes on here. All which will greatly limit and delude everyone on here that is guilty of what I said.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/buddha.html You can read the story of the Buddha there. In the story the Buddha meets a “master” and realised through direct experience the dimension of nothingness. Yet the limitations of nothingness become clear to him. He still has cravings. His mind still not under control. He continues. Teacher, after teacher. Until no teacher is of any use anymore. 

Buddhas liberation and enlightenment is not mere non duality. It is the complete cleansing of the mind. Total eradication of all cravings.

I am not a Muslim. Theravada Buddhism is the best, most complete teaching, and I never said the 4 noble truths are not buddhas teachings. Don’t understand why you think I did.

Thank God! Finally...

Sorry i've interpreted your comments this way. My english is kinda crappy. I could have known it better. Your username gives it away, right?^^

For me it really feels like Jesus and Buddha were the only ones who found out the truth. I can resonate with them in a certain way.

I had some mystical experiences which led me to studying Christianity. Sad part about Christianity is it raises more questions than answers. And then some more mystical experiences led me to Advaita Vedanta, which is basically Madhyamaka/Mahayana + God. For 6 months now i was diving deep into this. But somehow it always felt like a "logic cave" to me. It feels like the only thing you can experience with non-duality is the fact, that you aren't human: Gospel of John 10:32-34

32 But Jesus responded, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?” 33 “We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”…34 Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’?

But there is no true and final liberation in Advaita. We are (i am!) still bound to Samsara with that insight.

And now i'm gravitating towards Theravada. Any advice where to start? I know a bit of everything, but i want to dive deep into it. Good not boring lectures (on Youtube?!) and most important and must read books or something?

Edited January 13, 2019 by Sockrattes

[Arhattobe]

@Sockrattes Access to insight has a dhamma section that’s a good summary of things. 

I never followed any Theravada teachers personally so can’t recommend any. I just read the text themselves.

But, there are a number of satsangs I’ve done myself that I can link you if you are interested. Will link them to you in order.

Start off by reading my 4 noble truths post

 and let me know if your interested in the satsangs.

 

[Shin]

28 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

I actually can't understand why you WOULDN'T want to live it! Isn't the whole point of a "fantasy" something that you dream about and want? That crazy, mystical experience that was beyond your wildest dreams? Well, that IS reality! Like, I really don't understand this question! 

How am I gonna complain if nothing is real ?

?

[TheAvatarState]

12 minutes ago, Shin said:

How am I gonna complain if nothing is real ?

?

Ah, it makes perfect sense ?

[Sockrattes]

15 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@Sockrattes Access to insight has a dhamma section that’s a good summary of things. 

I never followed any Theravada teachers personally so can’t recommend any. I just read the text themselves.

But, there are a number of satsangs I’ve done myself that I can link you if you are interested. Will link them to you in order.

Start off by reading my 4 noble truths post

 and let me know if your interested in the satsangs.

 

I will check out https://accesstoinsight.org now.

Satsangs recommendations won't work for me. I live in Germany.^^

But thanks a lot. 

[Sidra]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@F A B There's no choice really. If you kill yourself, you'll just end up right back here. There is no end to it.

Welp.. just what I needed to hear hahaha

 

@F A B thx for posting the question.. that must be my fav thread in the forum hahaha

[Arhattobe]

@Sockrattes satsangs are just videos. Talks. 

[Aakash]

2 hours ago, Arhattobe said:

Leo is a good dude and he helped a lot of people, but his overconfidence in his opinions, and the teachings which have helped many on here. Also limit people on here.

@Arhattobe what are these limitations ? 

2 hours ago, Arhattobe said:

Merely frustrated at the lack of self honesty, lifelessness and the amount spiritual bypassing that goes on here. All which will greatly limit and delude everyone on here that is guilty of what I said.

as well as this? 

 

[Shin]

1 hour ago, TheAvatarState said:

Ah, it makes perfect sense ?