The difference between personal development and spiritual expansion (?)

[ivankiss]

What is your current perspective on this topic? What is the difference between the two?

I came to a conclusion that there is no difference.

Speaking from my direct experience; the two go hand in hand. They might as well be indistinguishable.

Of course; the concepts used while personally developing yourself differ from those used while focused on spiritual growth and expansion. Simply because each person is unique, while spirituality seems to have a "common ground" for everybody. But that's not what I'm talking about here.

There is something that pushes one forward into growth. I'd say it is inevitable. You may call it "purpose", "reason", "mission" or whatever other label you are comfortable with. It is what makes you wake up in the morning. Without it, there would be no existance for you.

My argument is;

This purpose cannot be avoided. What is meant to be; will be.

On one's journey of transformation and expansion, one has the freedom to choose conceptual models which resonate, and study them in order to reach a conceptual understanding of what actually is.

It does not change the nature of what is.

It only helps one reach a higher understanding of actuality.

The expansion will occur regardless of conceptual models and their accuracy.

It does not matter whether your "goal" is to become an enlightened master or a professional athlete. Those are merely labels. And they come with a certain conceptual model and environment. Both conceptual paths towards this conceptual goal have their set of challenges; obstacles.

What is that actually?

It is the process of transcending limitations. Expansion. Growth.

You may label these limitations how ever the heck you want. Actual expansion will not be affected by those labels.

An individual that is exploring spiritually-themed concepts may argue, that being a proffesional athlete cannot compare to being an enlightened master.

Oh yeah?

How so?

What if; a spiritually oriented individual saying that out loud is actually a part of the althlete's process of transcending limitations? What if your argument is merely a distraction to him? An obstacle for him to recognize and overcome.

What if the athlete is closer to his version of enlightenment than you are?

And he probably doesn't even have a clue about this thing called enlightenment.

What if you are, as a spirutal individual, even further behind on your path towards actual enlightenment? Regardless of your level of conceptual understanding of it.

Why?

Well maybe becauase you're full of judgement towards the athlete? And you are unable to accept anything outside of your own conceptual model of reality?

You are unable to see how his path is equally as important as yours. Equally as valid.

The athlete does not pay attention to distractions. He maintains focus on what is and shoots towards the goal. At that precise moment, he might as well be completely empty of self and merged with the absolute. He might be enlightened indeed, and have no need to let everybody know. He himself does not know, probably. That is why it's legit; one could argue.

So yeah, my point is:

"Enlightenment" is a concept. A highly accurate one, but you can still get lost in it. Big time. This should be apparent by now.

"Spirituality" is a lifestyle. It is a perspective. It is a path, not the path. I like to think of it as the self's coping mechanism, even.

Real spirituality and enlightenment can look like anything. In fact; the more unique, the more actual. Enlightened, if you will.

And please do not bring up arguments such as: "being a succesful athlete is a sign of egoic tendencies" yadayadayada.

Claiming such things is absolutely ridiculous.

I am talking about actuality here.

No one ever pointed to this "ego" actually. It is made up. Imaginary.

So stop bringing up imaginary arguments.

I feel like I extracted what needed to be extracted from this spirituality thing.

I might as well be back on the path of becoming a rock star. It is my enlightenment. My totality. My purpose. My contribution to oneness. My unique way of creating meaning.

Anyone who tries to convince me otherwise is an obstacle. And I love challenges. They give me an opportunity to show myself how firmly I stand my own ground. How blindly I trust myself. How enlightened I am. How accepting of other perspectives I am. How focused. How determined. How whole. How actual. How Ivan.

 

What is your twist?

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by ivankiss

[Brenzo2]

I think in a very short answer.

Personal Development is a general area in a specific field.

Spirituality is one of the many subsections of personal development. And its own entire thing.

*From what I'm aware of. Take caution in the technicalities ?.

[Sockrattes]

Personal development is the process of improving who you are right now.

And spiritual development is finding out what you really are.

There is interconnectedness and cross-reference between those two. Yes. But both are fundamentally different because the goal is different. Personal development might peak in spirituality but that's not custom.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Sockrattes

[ivankiss]

31 minutes ago, Sockrattes said:

Personal development is the process of improving who you are right now.

And spiritual development is finding out what you really are.

I like how you put that.

Would you say that what you really are is that which you are right now?

One could even argue there is no need to know what you are in order to be it. Of course; this may be dificult to grasp for many. That is where spirituality definitely comes in handy.

 

[Sockrattes]

22 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

I like how you put that.

Would you say that what you really are is that which you are right now?

One could even argue there is no need to know what you are in order to be it. Of course; this may be dificult to grasp for many. That is where spirituality definitely comes in handy.

 

As Swami Sarvaprijananda puts it very beautifully: "You think you are a human being having a spiritual experience. But in fact you are a spiritual being having a human experience."

 

I think the whole purpose of spiritual practice (at least those practices i make across) is to make that paradigm shift. Spirituality is not a tool to make your life as a human being better. It can. Yes. But that's not the main reason. Monks don't go to monasteries to become better with picking up girls or something. They are going there and live in celibacy to let go of being human. That's liberation.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Sockrattes

[ivankiss]

1 minute ago, Sockrattes said:

Monks don't go to monasteries to become better with picking up girls or something. They are going there and live in celibacy to let go of being human. That's liberation.

No, I would say that is one defenition of liberation. One version of it. That does not have to be liberation actually, at all.

One cannot possibly know what liberation is while trying to liberate himself by already existing conceptual guidelines. They may or may not work.

That's the ultimate trick. Spiritual folks get into this paradigm in order to find "The Truth", not realizing that they are putting this truth somewhere out there. Outside of themselves. Which is what causes all the confusion. There is no one ultimate definition of freedom. That's bullshit, if you ask me. There is no one Truth. Except that everyone has their own truth.

The definition varies from person to person; but the actual thing cannot be denied.

And it is beyond all paradigms.

Don't think the monks are not in their own paradigm. They have their own limitations. I live right next to a Buddhist monastery. Monks are not enlightened, sorry.

At least not here.

Then again, it's just my opinion.

[bejapuskas]

For me it feels like spiritual expansion is going into a conscious contact with the Truth and personal development is embodying it. 

Correct me if I'm wrong  

[ivankiss]

@bejapuskas Yes. But one can work on "both ends", so to speak; simultaniously.

And doesn't even necessarily have to realize this process. It happens automatically, as soon as one responds to excitement. Expansion is exciting.

I'd say it is impossible not to do both at the same time.

I see little to no difference now.

Merely a conceptual one. Only the theme is different.

Words are overrated.

 

[Sockrattes]

1 minute ago, ivankiss said:

No, I would say that is one defenition of liberation. One version of it. That does not have to be liberation actually, at all.

One cannot possibly know what liberation is while trying to liberate himself by already existing conceptual guidelines. They may or may not work.

That's the ultimate trick. Spiritual folks get into this paradigm in order to find "The Truth", not realizing that they are putting this truth somewhere out there. Outside of themselves. Which is what causes all the confusion. There is no one ultimate definition of freedom. That's bullshit, if you ask me. There is no one Truth. Except that everyone has their own truth.

The definition varies from person to person; but the actual thing cannot be denied.

And it is beyond all paradigms.

Don't think the monks are not in their own paradigm. They have their own limitations. I live right next to a Buddhist monastery. Monks are not enlightened, sorry.

At least not here.

Then again, it's just my opinion.

Awakening, moksha, liberation, enlightenment, kaivalya... and so on are all terms and concepts which were established with a very specific worldview in mind:

Samsara! The cycle of birth and rebirth. Never ending suffering.

 

If you don't see that problem, if this is just a belief for you, then there is no point in doing spiritual practice in a committed way. But most humans and that's why you think about this topic too are somewhat attracted to spirituality because the notion of ending suffering forever is inviting.

Most monks aren't enlightened. That's right. But they are trying to become enlightened.

[ivankiss]

@Sockrattes My path towards finding the truth occured naturally. I simply followed my excitement and passion.

As I was facing more and more personal challenges, I got deeper and deeper into spirituality.

Not to end the suffering. But to wake up to my totality. To become the fullest expression of the creator that I am. I am still on that path. It is never ending.

I am not about destinations.

I am about expansion. Transcendence. I love the journey and I have no need for anything to end.

Many could reach enlightenment, including monks, if they were to drop the notion of "trying" and simply be their truest, autenthic self right now. Not blindly follow something that Buddha said 2000 years ago. Without disrespecting anything.

Just sayin'.

[bejapuskas]

@ivankiss  I think that when you are developing psychologically on these different scales and lines, your area of concern also increases (stage beige person is only worried about himself, whereas a green person is worried about other people, the environment, animals...), therefore it is indirectly moving towards oneness, which can create this slight spiritual growth. (of course you will get much more from self-inquiry, death contemplation etc...)

I mean, you could probably get all these mystical experiences and just observe them and then go do your egotistical shit, but... It would be hard as fuck, your conscience would suffer severely  If your progress is serious, you are probably not gonna be willing to do that, just saying it's theoretically possible...  

[Sockrattes]

5 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

@Sockrattes Not to end the suffering. But to wake up to my totality.

Is there an actual difference between those two sentences?

[ivankiss]

58 minutes ago, Sockrattes said:

Is there an actual difference between those two sentences?

Nope. But there is a difference in the approach.

[ivankiss]

@bejapuskas If one trully cares about becoming their highest expression or version; the things you mentioned occur naturally. It is simply how evolution is. How transformation and growth happens.

It is natural to become more compassionate, considerate and loving. Also wise, mature and well articulated. If this does not happen, there is no actual growth. Only the conceptualization of it.

Edited January 13, 2019 by ivankiss

[bejapuskas]

@ivankiss Yeh, these two types of growth are interconnected. First you need to educate yourself to be aware of all these posibilities and models, then you need to actually go and do the practice to actually experience what they mean by these things like Oneness etc... But then again, you have to embody these mystical experiences, otherwise they are probably „useless“

I think we are overthinking this already, back to work  

[Anton Rogachevski]

@ivankiss

Thank you all for the contemplation.

I would say that spirituality is about realizing you are dreaming, and personal development is about making the dream nicer. There's no other place to be.

Cheers.

[Emanyalpsid]

Personal development is grounded in the natural material world and is an attempt to better cope or flourish in this sense-world.

Spirituality is an attempt to go beyond the natural material world, as presented to you through the senses, to look for its meaning or the fundamental nature of it. In western philosophy this is called metaphysics. Basically, you look for something beyond nature, something you do not perceive through your senses. This meaning is thus only found in thought and imagination.

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Emanyalpsid

[Nahm]

Spirituality is discovering you are not the character, personal development is playing. 

[ivankiss]

47 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Spirituality is discovering you are not the character, personal development is playing. 

I like that. Except that you are the character as well. Spirituality leads you to the realization that you are everything including nothing.

Nevertheless, after realizing this; you still have a game to play and a character to take care of, would you agree?

In my experience it seems to be so. And I'm lovin' it.

[Nahm]

@ivankiss There’s no character Ivan. It appears that way though.