Insights into "Truth" from psychedelics?

[Maya_0]

I'm curious to hear people's opinion on whether psychedelics can be used to access fundamental truths about Reality. Obviously we know Leo is of the opinion that Reality = Absolute Infinity (or Absolute Nothingness) and one can become directly conscious of this by taking 5 MEO DMT. But I'm curious to hear the public opinion.

Personally, I have gotten a sense of something I could call Infinity on other psychoactives, namely 2c-b, mdma, mda, mushrooms. There was something revealed in those experiences that felt more true than my ordinary waking reality.

Also, how would one respond to someone who would argue that there is no way to prove this "Truth" objectively because it only comes about through a personal subjective experience. 

Edited January 12, 2019 by Maya_0

[Leo Gura]

Psychedelics have been used by all cultures for over 20,000 years for this purpose. So there is no disputing it. Not to mention the clinical studies.

The distinction between objective and subjective does not exist. There is no such thing as subjective experience really. That is an illusion created by the ego. All "subjective experience" is actually Absolute Being if the ego is absent.

Being is prior to proof. Truth is prior to proof. Proof is a concept, Truth is actuality.

[RichardY]

Yes. But, truth is not easy. I think it may also be killing the Golden goose type of thing.

The little I have observed of psychedelics use on the Internet seems to make people worse. Otherwise sure I would be totally game, human experimentation I wouldn't care, there's even those movies endorsing psychedelics right, Lucy and Limitless. Except having read Leibniz's explanation of reality and for lack of something better, much more wary.

I'm uncertain whether the effects of psychedelics may result in an inability to control the unconscious. Or something really messed up and much more profound, actual crossover of dimensions. If so, what comes back with you, it's isn't some really messed up Dragon Age Origins shit is it? Like actual demonic possession exorcist style, but a bit more subtle. I'm kind of 50/50 between extra dimensions or the unconscious mind.

 

@Maya_0 When you say Infinity how do you feel exactly? Is it like a dream? Actually being somewhere else? A Kaleidoscope? TRON? How did it change how you think about the World? Does is feel good, if so how? Do feelings persist after the experience?

[TheAvatarState]

1 hour ago, Maya_0 said:

But I'm curious to hear the public opinion.

Wait, you came to get the public opinion on Leo's forum??

1 hour ago, Maya_0 said:

Also, how would one respond to someone who would argue that there is no way to prove this "Truth" objectively because it only comes about through a personal subjective experience.

I would tell them that all we have is personal subjective experience, that the notion of "objective" is an illusion couched WITHIN the subjective, and that they're question begging by having the wrong assumptions provided by their implied metaphysics. And of course, I'm the crazy one! Does that answer your question?

[Nahm]

@Maya_0 Yes. Psychedelics show nothing, including you & the psychedelic you just took, exists, and that there’s no fundamental truth about reality at all.  This should be most apparent to you, of all people! ♥️      

4 hours ago, Maya_0 said:

Also, how would one respond to someone who would argue that there is no way to prove this "Truth" objectively because it only comes about through a personal subjective experience. 

Explain you are offering the truth of nonduality, that there is not two;   subject (subjectivity) & object (objectivity).  

Explain the implication of duality, or the two-ness of subject & object - is that they are a separate thing (subject) from everything else (objects).

Ask if they understand that while they think there is the duality of existence & non-existence (alive & dead), the word nonexistence actually refers to something that isn’t. (They may need to google it). Nonexistence is not something which actually exists, so there is not two, there is only existence. 

As there is only existence, then they are existence (there is no - nonexistence - which they could be). This shows them they are not “alive” or “dead”. “Ignorance” is not insulting, it simply means they have been ignoring this (ignor-ance).  Then point out that the truth did just come about through their personal subjective experience, unless they ignore it. 

  

@RichardY Psychedelics show you: the fundamental truth of reality. 

There are no dimensions or demons, or dragon age origin shit, unfortunately. Idiots were already idiots before using psychedelics (don’t listen to them), and the unconscious is prior to “control” or “uncontrol” like awareness is prior to thinking or not thinking. 

How could you control the unconscious? What would it be like to control something you are not conscious of? 

[RichardY]

14 hours ago, Nahm said:

@RichardY Psychedelics show you: the fundamental truth of reality. 

There are no dimensions or demons, or dragon age origin shit, unfortunately. Idiots were already idiots before using psychedelics (don’t listen to them), and the unconscious is prior to “control” or “uncontrol” like awareness is prior to thinking or not thinking. 

How could you control the unconscious? What would it be like to control something you are not conscious of? 

Automatic writing, Ouija board, touch typing, changing gears on a car, riding a bike, interpreting dreams, ghosts, understanding archetypal stories.

Figure I should at least strip mine available resources. Then collate anecdotes and empirical observation of psychedelic affects.

[Nahm]

2 minutes ago, RichardY said:

Automatic writing, Ouija board, touch typing, changing gears on a car, riding a bike, interpreting dreams, ghosts, understanding archetypal stories.

Can you describe how you control those?

[RichardY]

Within frames. The first two a bit apprehensive about.

[Forestluv]

Psychedelics are like keys to doors. Which door they unlock varies.

[Nahm]

@RichardY  “Within frames” seems like more of a where. How do you control what you are not conscious of? 

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura ‘Truth’ is a concept. All words beget ideas. Truth included.

[RichardY]

6 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@RichardY  “Within frames” seems like more of a where. How do you control what you are not conscious of? 

By increasing consciousness. How to go about that, I'm not sure, maybe psychedelics help, although interested in alternatives. To consciously force meditation occurs within a frame. Aiming to try to be better, at least cognitively. Would be helpful I think, if I knew quality people to refer to. Still kind of wary, having grown an additional set of teeth after blaspheming God(didn't realise it), although probably plenty of scientific explanations, could have been over indulgence. I think consciousness maybe bought at a very high price. Of course a Buddhist conception of consciousness might be the most accurate, although in that case the wider conceptions of things seem independent of consciousness, so something causing things.
 

15 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura ‘Truth’ is a concept. All words beget ideas. Truth included.

Pretty sure truth is not a concept, it's more than that.

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura ‘Truth’ is a concept. All words beget ideas. Truth included.

"Truth" is a pointer to actuality or Being, which is not a concept.

If you hold truth as a concept, then yes, for you it is a concept, but that is not was pointed to by the word "Truth".