Taking an antidepressant during the dark night of the soul

[Ninie]

@Privet Well my first awakening experience was induced by serotonin accumulation by taking maximal doses of SSRIs and anxiolytics , so yeah I can see what you're saying. But the difference is I didn't know anything about ego death or any of this stuff back then, it happened unintentionally. The case I have now seems to be very different and the same path can't be undergone now, I guess.

[Richard Alpert]

On 12.1.2019 at 0:55 PM, Ninie said:

Hello. posting here for the first time..

I feel like I am the most turning and decisive point of my journey. I am stuck in a place which can have only one exit - knowing the truth. I feel like I've got nothing to lose - even though it may not seem so from the outside, looking at my studies, "success", personal image and etc. But despite all this, I know it is a proper moment to surrender to the "not-knowingness" of it all. And I have done so - I actually had an experience couple days ago when my ego became so tired of the seeking, that I just gave it up and "became present", to say so. I released all seeking, thinking, gave up all the stories and kind of started living in the now. But the mind couldn't bear it for more than a day and started obsessing and screaming again about how "this is not it". So I became even more confused, depressed so that my mind seems to have created a state where I should either awaken or suffer intensely and obsessively think about "awakening". No in between. No intervals. No "normal life". Everything is irrelevant but this.

So this morning the depression and suffering became so intense that I just broke down and took an antidepressant - just 50 mg or Zoloft - one of the pills I've used for the past years for my depression. It used to take at least several days for the effect to kick in, but now it worked miraculously fast - like an anesthetic. I'm still stuck in the same place but it's like the fire is distinguished, and even though it's a physical relief, I don't feel relief on a mental state, as I know everything is just right there where it was, I just have become numb to it.

But the more the ego attacks, the more it loses its strength, doesn't it? I mentally know that resistance is a good sign, although it's accompanied with such tiring sensations of suffering. So will numbing the mind with pills slow down the process I'm going through now? Will it reduce the effectiveness? 

 

[Forestluv]

On 1/12/2019 at 7:55 AM, Ninie said:

But the more the ego attacks, the more it loses its strength, doesn't it? I mentally know that resistance is a good sign, although it's accompanied with such tiring sensations of suffering. So will numbing the mind with pills slow down the process I'm going through now? Will it reduce the effectiveness? 

I’ve found it helpful to relax the mind, through a variety of tools. This can help evaporate the fog and allow greater clarity.

Your description of the pills as “numbing the mind”, suggests they are not an effective tool in evaporating the fog and promoting greater clarity. Perhaps they are providing relief such that the mind-body can sit in the fog with less discomfort.

It sounds like you have experienced spaces in which the egoic fog evaporates, yet then returns. Now that there is awareness of a clear mind state, the return of egoic fog can be frustrating and cause suffering. Yet as you mention, each time we return, there is a little less fog. 

Rather than set up a battle of “Fog vs No Fog”, perhaps you could just relax the mind and observe what arises. During meditation, perhaps some fog will roll through the mind. Hmmm, how interesting. . . Observe how the mind and body react to the fog. Is there grasping of the fog? Pushing away of the fog? Fear and insecurity within the fog? Perhaps some fog will evaporate and a clear stillness will arise. Just sit and observe that stillness. As fog gets thicker, relax and observe.

[Ninie]

Just one thing here. As I manage to be fully present even for a moment, forget about the past or future, stories, "the path", awakening, anything, literally anything, even the most intense suffering seems to just stop. I even don't think about it stopping, or create a story about how it stopped, or expect anything..anything at all. This is what becoming present for me is like - it's actually like the"razor's edge of now".

But when I do this, even the "path" disappears, my so called "spirituality", all the development, practice, leo, Buddha or Sadhguru, life, just anything. Even observing the mind and thoughts becomes meaningless because there's nothing to observe. 

The 2 main advices I got here from you guys are the following: 1. Becoming present, as nothing can be a problem in the present moment 2. Observing the suffering, thoughts, whatever's going on. But I can't seem to combine these two. As the moment I dare to become present and forget everything, there's nothing to observe, just nothing going on. It's like I will be this motionless and brainwashed for the rest of my life. 

Any thoughts?

@Serotoninluv 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Ninie

[Ninie]

@Serotoninluv also the fog doesn't arise during meditation, it's intensely there all the time

Edited January 13, 2019 by Ninie

[Forestluv]

4 hours ago, Ninie said:

Just one thing here. As I manage to be fully present even for a moment, forget about the past or future, stories, "the path", awakening, anything, literally anything, even the most intense suffering seems to just stop. I even don't think about it stopping, or create a story about how it stopped, or expect anything..anything at all. This is what becoming present for me is like - it's actually like the"razor's edge of now".

I would be careful of defining "presence" as the cessation of thoughts, ideas and stories. By doing so, your mind is setting up an "either - or" dynamic: that there is presence or non-presence. Yet, presence is always present. There is no escape from presence. 

It sounds like you have experienced a form of emptiness in which the stories, thoughts, beliefs etc. dissolve. Is there awareness in this mind state? Or is more like "zoning out"?

As well, it sounds like your mind is new to this experience and is contextualizing it by setting up a scenario in which a "present mind state" means no suffering and a "not present" mind state means suffering. It sounds like there is seeking energy to use this feature of "presence" to selectively eliminate suffering during "non-presence".  This can cause egoic desires toward some type of goal. For example: "I want to combine presence with non-presence to end my suffering".

Presence is not a place separate from non-presence. Presence is nothing and everything. It is unconditional. Presence when you are meditating. .. . presence during sadness, frustration, watching a movie, eating, thinking, arguing, having sex, taking a math exam and on and on. Yet, it's more likely it will reveal itself when the mind is quiet. It sounds like you have gotten a look of presence from a unique and fresh perspective. 

I would ask that attachments and identifications be revealed (not eliminated). Observe attachments and identification to thoughts and ideas as they arise through the day. Perhaps awareness will arise that those attachment and identification dynamics arise within presence. 

This process can be very unsettling to a mind-body that wants to be grounded. Surrendering control can be scary as well as liberating. If it is overwhelming to the mind-body, you may want to try and pull back for a bit to reduce the intensity and integrate lessons for a bit. I would do activities that relax the mind-body, such as yoga, walks in nature, watching nonduality videos etc.