Meditation Plateau

[Rilles]

9 minutes ago, Jack River said:

What if fear is the I? 

But then who is aware of it?

[Rilles]

15 minutes ago, Jack River said:

And do you designate a routine to do this, or are you always meditating in your daily life? As in do you observe yourself in relationship. Relationship to your pleasure/desires and relationship with others?

Daily meditation 30 mins a day at best

about 10% random mindful observation throughout the day

Edited January 12, 2019 by Rilles

[Jack River]

Just now, Rilles said:

But then who is aware of it?

Is there a division at all? That’s the question. 

If we assume there is a division, are we going to then reinforce a duality between what is and what should be (according to fear/I)? 

If we start this off with a divison between two “things” (the I and fear) are we not then going to superimpose what the I (the past) thinks should be, and therefore conflict? 

[Jack River]

6 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Daily meditation 30 mins a day at best

about 10% random mindful observation throughout the day

Gotcha. 

[Charlotte]

@Rilles Negative thought = negative energy in stomach.

If your not aware of how the negative thought can snowball your in for a whirlwind of shit my friend. 

Are you aware Rilles, truly aware that thought is illusory?

Have you contemplated thought?

Have you witnessed it's illusory'ness?

[Jack River]

11 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

Have you contemplated thought?

Have you witnessed it's illusory'ness?

And who is contemplating /witnessing? 

Thought(the past-the I)?

If the past is contemplating/witnessing is that past influencing the contemplation/witnessing in one direction or another? 

Is this where conflict arises?...what arises from moment to moment and then the past-the I with its preconceived notions/judgements of what should be instead bringing about this conflict of interest. 

Edited January 12, 2019 by Jack River

[Charlotte]

@Jack River  I understand jack I do but you have to meet people where they're at. If I was to communicate to Rilles in this manner I feel it wouldn't be much help to him. (I might be wrong though) 

Break down the illusion bit by bit.

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

@Jack River  I understand jack I do but you have to meet people where they're at. If I was to communicate to Rilles in this manner I feel it wouldn't be much help to him. (I might be wrong though) 

Break down the illusion bit by bit.

I don’t know where he is at. 

Thats why I’m asking questions. 

 

 

[Charlotte]

@Jack River I kinda get a feel from the content replied to and posted. Maybe that's me assuming though ?

[Jack River]

In the moment of the emotion/thought of fear there is only fear, then the thought of I (the past-memory) comes in and says I have been angry...I should or should not be according to the past(preference). 

Is this divison between me and fear false?

And if so is this false division the root of conflict? 

If so, is there a conflict at all if there is no division? 

If there is no “two things” conflicting is there conflict? 

[Jack River]

5 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

@Jack River I kinda get a feel from the content replied to and posted. Maybe that's me assuming though ?

I’m not sure. 

For me going directly into this question really cut through all the ups and downs associated with step by step gradual understanding. 

I appreciate your questioning. I am well aware my friendly dude. 

Edited January 12, 2019 by Jack River

[Rilles]

2 hours ago, Jack River said:

Is there a division at all? That’s the question. 

If we assume there is a division, are we going to then reinforce a duality between what is and what should be (according to fear/I)? 

If we start this off with a divison between two “things” (the I and fear) are we not then going to superimpose what the I (the past) thinks should be, and therefore conflict? 

Now that I look... I cant really find one... its a mindfuck... I dont really know... self-honesty is difficult

 

1 hour ago, Charlotte said:

@Rilles Negative thought = negative energy in stomach.

If your not aware of how the negative thought can snowball your in for a whirlwind of shit my friend. 

Are you aware Rilles, truly aware that thought is illusory?

Have you contemplated thought?

Have you witnessed it's illusory'ness?

I know it can snowball, thats why Im trying to practice really letting thoughts go, I have alot of experience with anxiety/neurotic thoughts so I have had a little pratice

I havent seen that its illusory, only thats its not “me”, what do you mean by illusory? 

[Jack River]

13 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Now that I look... I cant really find one... its a mindfuck... I dont really know... self-honesty is difficult

 

I feel ya. 

13 minutes ago, Rilles said:

havent seen that its illusory, only thats its not “me”, what do you mean by illusory? 

What do mean when you say it’s not you? As in this “thing” is happening to you? 

Edited January 12, 2019 by Jack River

[Jack River]

15 minutes ago, Rilles said:

I have alot of experience with anxiety/neurotic thoughts

Coukd these experiences of neurotic thoughts/anxiety be the I? Could it all be the product of the past(thought)? But one unit in movement of I? 

Edited January 12, 2019 by Jack River

[Charlotte]

@Jack River  ignore tag sorry.

What do I mean by illusory. Good question. 

Without going all non dualy. What I mean is that thought is illusory in the sense that it isn't 'us' it's not our reality. Identification with thought leads to suffering. Once we truly realise that it literally is just a... Happening, after careful observation disidentification happens and thus leading to the present moment (it was already always there but you know what I mean). 

[Jack River]

41 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

What I mean is that thought is illusory in the sense that it isn't 'us' it's not our reality

What do you mean it isn’t us? 

[Rilles]

2 hours ago, Jack River said:

I feel ya. 

What do mean when you say it’s not you? As in this “thing” is happening to you? 

I am aware of it but its not what I think of as me, like for example, I could be having a song (which is also thought) in my head, that song is not me, Im aware of the song

2 hours ago, Charlotte said:

@Jack River  ignore tag sorry.

What do I mean by illusory. Good question. 

Without going all non dualy. What I mean is that thought is illusory in the sense that it isn't 'us' it's not our reality. Identification with thought leads to suffering. Once we truly realise that it literally is just a... Happening, after careful observation disidentification happens and thus leading to the present moment (it was already always there but you know what I mean). 

Okay I see, Ive heard that before many times but I dont really know how to disidentify with thought...

[Jack River]

3 hours ago, Rilles said:

I am aware of it but its not what I think of as me, like for example, I could be having a song (which is also thought) in my head, that song is not me, Im aware of the song

Is the song that arises an indication that identification has already taken place? 

If there was no identification in the first place would that song be playing(responding/reacting)? 

Do we subtly identify, then choose (divided action) to identify with another “thing”, or disassociate with the song? 

Or, why do we say there needs to be someone aware of the song? 

What if the self is conditioned to work within this field of divison in which it is so successfully sublte?

Am I communicating this subtle mechanical tendency clearly? 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Jack River

[Jack River]

Does the monkey disassociate with itself to make its self feel better/more secure... invent for itself a “thing” to give it hope? A sense of certainty/to hold itself together?

Edited January 12, 2019 by Jack River