The Impossible Nothingness Beyond Absolute Infinity

[Leo Gura]

@Ethankahn The way you are speaking it strikes me that you have not directly experienced the Absolute deeply enough. Otherwise such questions and issues would not arise. Maybe you got a taste of it, but not the Full Monty. You need to go back and directly experience the Fully Monty.

To say there is something beyond the Absolute is silly. The Absolute is Absolute and there is nothing beyond it because it is total.

You are still holding Nothingness and Infinity as distinct things, which is a duality, which must be further collapsed, thus resolving this entire thread.

What more is there to say if you are fully conscious of the Absolute? The Absolute is all there is. There is nothing but the Absolute.

[Ethankahn]

@Leo Gura Yes you got it. You said,” beyond Absolute Infinity is silly. There’s Nothing beyond it.” Exactly! That ‘Nothing’ that you call silly. That’s what I’m “experiencing” (non experiencing).

Trust me, I only sound like I’m speaking in dualistic terms because it’s hard to speak without them. I don’t like how it all sounded either but I wanted to give verbal communication a shot.

Believe me, I understand that complete and utter emptiness is still within Absolute Infinity. I also realize that Absolute Infinity is both Absolute Infinitely full and Absolutely Infinitely empty. It's everything that it is, and yet, everything that is not it (the negation or emptiness of itself). Absolute Infinity holds the set of all places as well as the empty set of nowhere and every combination of every set in-between. I was calling the emptiness a "thing" which is where my attempt at communicating failed. 

What I was referring to as Nothingness (for lack of a better term) can't be described with either emptiness or fullness. The best I could say was that it's fuller than Absolute Infinite fullness and emptier than Absolute Infinite emptiness (yes, "silly," as you said, I agree). 

That's why I tried to allude to it as illogical but I realize that wasn't enough to express it either. I didn't elaborate on what I meant by the 2 + 2 =5 example as much as I should have. Please, allow me to attempt to re-explain. This "nothingness" can allow 2 objects to be placed next to 2 others and the result will be 5 (without the 5th appearing from somewhere or nowhere). The 5th wouldn't even need to appear from pure emptiness! Of course, in Absolute Infinity, there are places where 2 and 2 objects can make a 5th appear from somewhere or even nowhere (pure emptiness). 

Yet this silly nonsensical "nothing" is just the "first" of a "line of concepts" beyond Absolute Infinity that I want to share with you for your enjoyment. 

Edited January 11, 2019 by Ethankahn

[who chit]

1 hour ago, cetus56 said:

@who chit That's just the tip of the iceberg. What is less then zero?

If we use the concept of zero as a way of pointing to the Absolute,God,Self,Brahman,etc.,
can God,Brahman,Absolute be more or less than it is? 

Can God be less than God?

[triadne]

2 hours ago, Ethankahn said:

@triadne No no. The “experience” of 2 + 2 = 5 is beyond Absolute Infinity. So you’re correct that it’s not a part of it. And I do “see” “beings” that can make 2 + 2 = 5. But they’re outside of Absolute Infinity

So are you saying I am outside of absolute infinity? because I am conceptualising it just fine.

[Ethankahn]

@triadne If you can conceptualize "something" that is neither fullness nor emptiness, than yes. What I've been calling "nothingness" for lack of a better term is fuller than Absolute Infinite fullness and emptier than absolute infinite emptiness. That's why it's neither full nor empty. It's outside of both extents. It could make the 5th object be there without appearing from somewhere or nowhere. So it wouldn't even need to pull the 5th object from pure emptiness! Isn't that insane!? I realize this is silly, but has its own "realness" beyond Absolute Infinite reality.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Ethankahn

[triadne]

@Ethankahn I think I get what you're saying and it is kinda interesting. it reminds me of something I also stumbled upon yesterday. that the entirety of existence is very basic and simple and that there is so much more.

[Ethankahn]

@triadne exactly. What I’m attempting to describe goes beyond any meaningful expression we could ever have. Even endlessness (Absolute Infinity) 

I think I might do a revised post now that I’ve found better words to attempt the “description.” Haha

Edited January 11, 2019 by Ethankahn

[triadne]

I do want to note though... the idea that absolute infinity is not capable of producing an actual real reality where 2+2=5 is a ridiculous notion on the face of it.  simply put, absolute infinity would include absolute infinite variations and differences in rules of logic.
But I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that isn't what you were referring to .

[Ethankahn]

@triadne Yes, Absolute Infinity can produce realities where 2 + 2 = 5. But the 5th item would have to appear from either somewhere or nowhere (something else or pure emptiness). This inconceivable “nothingness” that I’m referring to could not only make 2 + 2 = 5, but it could make the 5th item just be there... without appearing... not even from emptiness.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Ethankahn

[Forestluv]

@Ethankahn When the null void revealed itself, this type of thinking ended. 

[cetus]

9 hours ago, who chit said:

If we use the concept of zero as a way of pointing to the Absolute,God,Self,Brahman,etc.,
can God,Brahman,Absolute be more or less than it is? 

Can God be less than God?

God minus all the concepts like zero, infinity ect. is what I'm pointing to.

Islam for instance has the right idea when they say God can't be spoken of. Let alone being described in terms of a mathematical equation.

[Ethankahn]

@Serotoninluv

I’m talking about neither void nor fullness. Absolute Infinity contains both emptiness and fullness. It’s Absolute Infinitely full and Absolute Infinitely empty. But what I’ attempting to refer to is “something” inconceivably beyond both. So it’s neither. 

Also, Serotoninluv, I can still go further. You haven’t let me discuss as far as “I am” (‘I am’ and ‘I am not’ only apply within Absolute Infinity). But there’s no way you’ve seen “something” that’s neither fullness nor emptiness within Absolute Infinity because it’s fuller than Absolute Infinite fullness and emptier than Absolute Infinite emptiness. So it’s simply beyond Absolute Infinity. All you said was that you’re experiencing a null void. That’s not what I’m referring to. My “experience” transcends all meaningful expressions, including expressions like pure emptiness, Absolute Infinite fullness or anything or “thing” in-between. Even saying that isn’t enough. And that’s an understatement. It’s less than not enough. 

... Yet that’s an understatement as well. And so is saying that. And that. And that... I’ll choose to stop.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Ethankahn

[Mu_]

2 hours ago, Ethankahn said:

@Serotoninluv

I’m talking about neither void nor fullness. Absolute Infinity contains both emptiness and fullness. It’s Absolute Infinitely full and Absolute Infinitely empty. But what I’ attempting to refer to is “something” inconceivably beyond both. So it’s neither. 

Also, Serotoninluv, I can still go further. You haven’t let me discuss as far as “I am” (‘I am’ and ‘I am not’ only apply within Absolute Infinity). But there’s no way you’ve seen “something” that’s neither fullness nor emptiness within Absolute Infinity because it’s fuller than Absolute Infinite fullness and emptier than Absolute Infinite emptiness. So it’s simply beyond Absolute Infinity. All you said was that you’re experiencing a null void. That’s not what I’m referring to. My “experience” transcends all meaningful expressions, including expressions like pure emptiness, Absolute Infinite fullness or anything or “thing” in-between. Even saying that isn’t enough. And that’s an understatement. It’s less than not enough. 

... Yet that’s an understatement as well. And so is saying that. And that. And that... I’ll choose to stop.

For the most part it seems like your just using different terminology to describe roughly what Leo and others are saying.  Its also confusing since your using the same labels and just putting them in different orders. 

However statements like "My “experience” transcends all meaningful expressions, including expressions like pure emptiness, Absolute Infinite fullness or anything or “thing” in-between make me raise my eyebrow.  On what grounds do you make the claim that you have "trancended" what these other labels are pointing to?  Like gone beyond?  Above?  Included?

What made you believe you were in those places to begin with, to then transcend them?  Did they have a sign post when you arrived at them?  Did you have a map that when you arrived at them, you could say with certainty I'm here now?  And then when you left them, there was a road that took you up a higher mountain in which you now see over them? 

Honestly, I'd like to know what you mean.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Mu_

[Forestluv]

@Ethankahn It seems like your mind is still thinking and imagining. All thoughts and images are relative.

One surrenders all distinctions to become aware prior to all distinctions.

[Ethankahn]

@Serotoninluv You can’t think about or imagine what I’m trying to get at. You can’t even have an awareness of it. I’ve said that explicitly. You’re ignoring me and making judgements. 

[Ethankahn]

@Mu_  I understand that what I’m trying to get at is very nonsensical (for lack of a better term because you can still find nonsensical things within Absolute Infinity). But, these “experiences” (also for lack of better term) are very explicit in “showing” me that I’m beyond Absolute Endlessness (Infinity). So essentially, yes, a signpost. However, that doesn’t sound good enough either because if there’s a signpost, there’s something beyond it. This would be more like the lack of a signpost and then “moving” beyond that. Ugh, that’s still not good enough. Maybe I should just stop pedaling my nonsense. It was never necessary for me to share any of this because Absolute Infinity is the Absolute Truth. So technically what I’m trying to get at doesn’t apply to Truth at all. You may ask, “Did you just admit you’re wrong?” Yes... but here’s the thing. This false, silly “thing” that I’m trying to discuss has it’s own “realness” beyond reality and the absence thereof. It can never be expressed or conceptialized. So I realize that trying to talk about it is essentially meaningless. I only wanted to share for those who would possibly get enjoyment out of it. However, I realize there’s no enjoyment in trying to conceptualize the “inconceivable” (still not a good enough term). So maybe I should just go silently.

[Forestluv]

13 minutes ago, Ethankahn said:

@Serotoninluv You can’t think about or imagine what I’m trying to get at. You can’t even have an awareness of it. I’ve said that explicitly. You’re ignoring me and making judgements. 

Thoughts and images arise. That’s a feature of minds. 

One key for the absolute to be revealed is to surrender all, including attachment and identification with thoughts and images.

[Ethankahn]

@Serotoninluv These aren’t thoughts or images. You’re willfully ignoring me and being dishonest. Also, to say that Mu hadn’t Revealed itself is making a distinction.  

[Forestluv]

3 minutes ago, Ethankahn said:

@Serotoninluv These aren’t thoughts or images. You’re willfully ignoring me and being dishonest. Also, to say that Mu hadn’t Revealed itself is making a distinction.  

All words are distinctions. 

At the human level, minds like to interpret and assign meaning. At the absolute level, it has no more relevance than bird chirps.

[Ethankahn]

@Joseph Maynor You said “opposite to abstract terms.” So you’re still using concepts in your speech as well. Namely, “opposite.” Opposition is a concept. If Enlightenment were beyond concepts, it’d be beyond opposition to anything.