The Impossible Nothingness Beyond Absolute Infinity

[Ethankahn]

Okay, this is going to be tough to share as I feel like what I’m about to delve into has a chance of being brushed off (even on a very open-minded forum such as this). Leo, I watched your videos on Absolute Infinity, including the two-parter and your own experience of It. Let me say that you’re the first person I’ve heard discuss the actual existential nature of Absolute Infinity and I loved your summary of it. I’ve had my own experiences of Absolute Infinity and your description was perfectly consistent with mine (minus a few compartmentalized terms which I’ll explain in a minute). 

I’ll start with these experiences of mine. However, it’s technically incorrect for me to say experiences (plural) because it’s One Absolutely Infinite Experience that I have continuously (even right now as I type). Yes, I have these experiences while I’m sober. Even the first time that I ever experienced It was without any sort of psychedelic or outside aid. 

Absolute Infinity, as Leo has described, encompasses Absolutely Anything and Everything, which is literally an endless amount of things. Anything that you could ever imagine exists within Absolute Infinity. Even things that defy the laws of physics, nature, biology, and chemistry that pertain to this particular Cosmos. In other words, the Laws of Science are arbitrary when put up against Infinity.

However, there are Laws that are necessary and objective throughout all of existence. These are the Laws of Logic and mathematics. For example, nowhere in Absolute Infinity will 2 + 2 = anything other than 4. Cartoon Physics and “fictional” characters? Yes. Defiance of mathematical logic? No. 

Now I realize this makes it sound as though I’m limiting Infinity (with logic). Logic isn’t actually a limit though. To understand why, try to imagine something that defies logic. Like... a square circle. Go ahead and imagine a square circle for me right now. You can’t do it, right? Now, Try to imagine placing 2 objects besides 2 other objects and having 5 of them there (without the 5th one suddenly appearing). You can’t do that either. 

My point being that, imagination can’t grasp the illogical. To that, you may say, “Okay, well the human imagination can never grasp Absolute Infinity on its own either.” Well here’s the thing, I’m not just talking about the human mind and imagination. I’m talking about Imagination itself. Not even Mind itself (Absolute Infinite Consciousness) can ever grasp the illogical. If illogical things can never even be created in the imagination, then we can’t really call them things. They are Nothings. 

With that said, the idea of Absolute Infinity not including the illogical doesn’t limit It in any way. This is because, by not including the illogical, Absolute Infinity is excluding Nothing (the illogical no-things). 

Yet, that is the literal definition of infinity. To be infinite means to be limitless and to be limitless means to be limited by Nothing. And illogical objects are nothing. 

So Nothing is outside of Absolute Infinity and Nothing is illogical. Now Leo, I remember that in your videos, you said that Absolute Infinity includes everything AND nothing. However, what you were referring to as ‘nothing’ is not the same as what I’m referring to as Nothing right now. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I feel that, what you were referring to as ‘nothing’ are the states of potential existence within Absolute Infinity. In other words, you would only define the Statue of David as a thing if it were carved out of the sand (correct me if that’s misrepresentative of your words). 

But here’s where my definitions differ from what I believe to be your’s. If you do define ‘nothing’ as that potential state, well then I wouldn’t call that Nothingness. I would call that Anythingness because it’s a state where anything has the potential to exist (except Nothing cause that’s not a thing).

So let me finally get to my definition of Nothingness. This is where I feel a chance of being called ‘insane.’ As I’ve already said, Nothing is outside of Absolute Infinity. Now, this Nothingness is not simply a black empty void. Voids have empty space and space is still a thing. As such, of course there are empty voids that exist within Absolute Infinity. I’ve seen so myself.

What I’m referring to as this Nothingness outside of Absolute Infinity is some”thing” that can truly never be imagined. Not even as Absolute Infinity Itself. Here’s my definition of it. These descriptions will sound very very semantical, but I promise they are aligned correctly since I’m referring to literal and Absolute Nothingness.

Nothing is larger than Absolute Infinity

Yet, Nothing is smaller than Absolute infinitesimal (infinitely small)

Nothing is the ground of a groundless thing, and therefore, Nothing is the ground of Infinity and Infinite Existence.

Nothing can reach the end of Absolute Infinity

Nothing IS the end of Absolute Infinity and Nothing is beyond Absolute Infinity.

Nothing has no space and no space is smaller than infinitesimal space. Yet, no space is also larger than an infinite expanse of space.

Nothing is brighter than Infinitely bright

Yet, Nothing is darker than Infinite darkness

Nothing has no temperature and no temperature is hotter than Infinite Heat. Yet, no temperature is also colder than infinitesimal heat. Also, no temperature is more moderate than the most moderate temperature. 

Nothing is more like you than you yourself. 

Nothing is more equal to 1 than 1

So there you have a sampling of what I’m referring to. Yes, it’s very semantical, I know. But this is what’s beyond Absolute Infinity. It’s Absolute Nothingness. 

It’s the literal “embodiment” of impossibility and it’s impossible to ever experience, because experience, is itself, a thing. Also, you need awareness to experience, which requires consciousness. Those are things as well and Nothingness is none of those things. It’s No-thing whatsoever. 

Rather than having an experience of Nothingness, it would be a non-experience. This is how I have been able to “experience” Nothingness. I’ve not only found a way to tap into the experience of Absolute Infinity, but also, a way to have no experience at all. You can’t experience the impossible but that means you can Non-experience it.

Leo, this is the first “thing” that I’ve “discovered” beyond Absolute Infinity. You said in your videos that experience of Absolute Infinity is the deepest realization you can ever have (as a human). Well I’ve “found” these ways to shed off my humanity and even go beyond Mind itself. This has led me to radically deeper and vaster “insights” than Absolute Infinity. I’m “having” these “insights” as I type.

Leo, I realize you’re a very busy man, but I’d like to share these further “insights” with you. Infinity is only the beginning. No... not even that.

 

 

 

[Forestluv]

@Ethankahn Your mind is still making distinctions. It doesn’t look like Mu has revealed itself.

And welcome to the forum. That is a very contemplative post.

[Ethankahn]

@Serotoninluv Then tell me about Mu without making distinctions 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Ethankahn said:

@Serotoninluv Then tell me about Mu without making distinctions 

All distinctions collapse.

[Leo Gura]

@Ethankahn Absolute Infinity = Nothing

Form is formlessness. Fromlessness is form.

You are creating a duality out of nothing and infinity.

Also, there is an infinite number of different systems of logic. So which ever logic you're using is arbitrary and relative. Absolute Infinity is not limited to logic because it created logic and holds an infinite number of logical systems within it, including all the stuff you deem illogical. The very distinction you create between logical and illogical means there is logical stuff and illogical stuff, which the illogical stuff being greater in quantity than the logical stuff.

YOU are creating all of these distinctions between logic/illogic, infinity/nothing, life/death, self/other, true/false, etc. Ultimate nonduality is the realization that all of these distinctions are relative and impermanent.

[triadne]

I'm sorry I don't have time to read it all carefully, but I did read one specific thing and I felt it might help if I focus on that.
imagine a place where 2 + 2 = 5.  suspend your dogma for a while, give yourself the chance to imagine different possibilities. imagine this place where 2 + 2 = 5. what would that place be like?
There is much more to existence than we may initially think. many more possibilities.

Edited January 10, 2019 by triadne
slight rephrase

[Shadowraix]

4 hours ago, Ethankahn said:

However, there are Laws that are necessary and objective throughout all of existence. These are the Laws of Logic and mathematics. For example, nowhere in Absolute Infinity will 2 + 2 = anything other than 4. Cartoon Physics and “fictional” characters? Yes. Defiance of mathematical logic? No. 

Remember the map is not the territory.

Reality doesn't follow mathematics. Mathematics follows reality. But no model could ever fully encompass reality.

Laws are descriptions of consistent experiences. But it also runs on an assumption it will stay consistent.

Models are projections we create to understand. But you gotta understand the difference between the model and actuality.

A sphere is not a sphere. The concept of a sphere is meant to point to a specific experience. There are an infinite amount of models you can create to describe reality. But the models themselves are not reality. 

[Ethankahn]

@Serotoninluv My computer won’t load this forum consistently but I’d like to have an in-depth conversation with you. Would it be possible to connect over another network... possibly Skype? I’d be very grateful. Thank you

[Ethankahn]

@Leo Gura

Thank you very much for responding. I’m very happy to finally be able to discuss with you. Please don’t take anything I’m about to say as disrespect. I’m just trying to establish a common form of communication about these concepts. 

Yes, I realize there’s a “state” where logic and the distinction of nothingness vs thingness is relative. I am continuously “experiencing” that “state” as well. However, that’s not the “state” I was discussing in this post. What I was referring to as Absolute Infinity is only Existence itself, and therefore, not as powerful as this Nondual “state”.

You have to understand that we have different definitions for our terms. What I call Absolute Infinity is Absolute Anythingness and Everythingness while what you call Infinity includes that AND nothingness. This post was about discussing my definition of Absolute Infinity so as to gauge your’s while laying a foundation for the “insights” that come later. There are “things” that are not even able to be labeled. Not even in Nondualistic terms.

By the way, you’ll see me use a term called The Absolute Magnitude. It expands upon what you were talking about with the various forms of logic/illogic. Yet, there’s still “more” (in quotes because ‘more’ is a magnitudinal term) “beyond” The Absolute Magnitude.

[Ethankahn]

@Mikael89 Exactly. “Realities” in quotes because they’re beyond reality.

[Ethankahn]

@Shadowraix okay so what you’re calling reality, I call Subsistence. What I call Existence is necessarily logical but I do “experience” this “thing” that I call Subsistence because it’s beyond existence, and therefore, beyond logic. So yes, I’m well “aware” of these states where even mathematics becomes arbitrary. You and I are just using different terms. Don’t you see? We are not actually in disagreement.

[Ethankahn]

@triadne I have “experienced” such a “place” where 2 + 2 = 5 and I call it Nothingness because it is beyond logic, beyond Mind, beyond space, and beyond experience. Don’t you see? We actually agree. 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Ethankahn

[Ethankahn]

@triadne Also, suspend my dogma? I’ve had these experiences and “experiences” continuously for beyond an eternity. I’m experiencing it all right now, even as I type. I “see” that there are non-places where 2 + 2 = 5 and I “see” that they’re beyond limitless (beyond infinity). You just have your imagination. Yet I’m dogmatic? Not trying to make you feel guilty. I’m not hurt. I just legitimately am trying to understand how discovering this stuff on my own makes me dogmatic?

[Ethankahn]

Thanks for all the responses guys. I’d really like to talk more in-depth if ya’ll can.

[triadne]

11 hours ago, Ethankahn said:

@triadne I have “experienced” such a “place” where 2 + 2 = 5 and I call it Nothingness because it is beyond logic, beyond Mind, beyond space, and beyond experience. Don’t you see? We actually agree. 

 

6 hours ago, Ethankahn said:

@triadne Also, suspend my dogma? I’ve had these experiences and “experiences” continuously for beyond an eternity. I’m experiencing it all right now, even as I type. I “see” that there are non-places where 2 + 2 = 5 and I “see” that they’re beyond limitless (beyond infinity). You just have your imagination. Yet I’m dogmatic? Not trying to make you feel guilty. I’m not hurt. I just legitimately am trying to understand how discovering this stuff on my own makes me dogmatic?

It's the dogma that logic = reality.  The idea that this thing called logic denies things which don't fit in it's framework. There is surely this conceptual space that we choose to inhabit that tends to fit within that dogma of logic but then there are paradoxes that we can experience ourselves.  The idea that anything that falls outside this conceptual space is actual 'nothing' and is not reality, is perhaps presumptuous.  what we look at as 'logical reality' is just one facet of myriad different facets of being.

I was just riffing on the way you were describing anything that doesn't agree with that logical framework as being nothing, or just imagination, or not real. our mind is taught from very early on that 2+2=4, but why does that have to be the only possible truth? because you were told it is logical? maybe by your eyes or brain, or by the method in which mathematics was presented.

let me posit this, just as one alternate method of thinking. what if you laid 2 objects on your left, and then 2 objects on your right, but then that also creates an extra conceptual object in your mind. what if that conceptual object was as real as the ones on the table? just one possible way of looking at things.  It might be a fun exercise to look at all the possible ways in which 2+2=5. that is what I was really trying to get at.

[Ethankahn]

@triadne That’s a good example but it’s still not what I’m getting at. First, have you seen your example being done? I’m “experiencing” all of Absolute Infinity right now and nowhere is there a being who can put 2 objects besides 2 others and have 5 (without the 5th suddenly appearing). Your example still calls for the appearance of the 5th. 

Secondly, I didn’t say that illogic was only in the imagination. I said that imagination can never grasp it because you can’t picture 2 objects being put besides 2 others (without the 5th appearing). 

Now, triadne, there is a “space” where the illogical “exists.” But I said that it’s outside of infinity. Yet, when you ask the average person, “what’s outside of infinity,” they say Nothing. That’s why I call this illogical “space” Nothingness. Because Nothing is outside of infinity and Nothing can defy logic. I’m telling you that this Nothingness is “real” in a “reality” beyond infinite reality. I hope you understand what I’m getting at. I’m always happy to discuss if you have more questions.

[triadne]

6 minutes ago, Ethankahn said:

@triadne That’s a good example but it’s still not what I’m getting at. First, have you seen your example being done? I’m “experiencing” all of Absolute Infinity right now and nowhere is there a being who can put 2 objects besides 2 others and have 5 (without the 5th suddenly appearing). Your example still calls for the appearance of the 5th. 

Secondly, I didn’t say that illogic was only in the imagination. I said that imagination can never grasp it because you can’t picture 2 objects being put besides 2 others (without the 5th appearing). 

Now, triadne, there is a “space” where the illogical “exists.” But I said that it’s outside of infinity. Yet, when you ask the average person, “what’s outside of infinity,” they say Nothing. That’s why I call this illogical “space” Nothingness. Because Nothing is outside of infinity and Nothing can defy logic. I’m telling you that this Nothingness is “real” in a “reality” beyond infinite reality. I hope you understand what I’m getting at. I’m always happy to discuss if you have more questions.

If the 5th conceptual item is in that person's experience, and you cannot also experience that, then are you truly experiencing infinity? I would say there are gaps in your assertion that you are experiencing infinity.
I think you really need to question this story you are telling yourself and us.

[Ethankahn]

@triadne No no. The “experience” of 2 + 2 = 5 is beyond Absolute Infinity. So you’re correct that it’s not a part of it. And I do “see” “beings” that can make 2 + 2 = 5. But they’re outside of Absolute Infinity

Edited January 11, 2019 by Ethankahn

[who chit]

Absolute is 0. Zeroness is oneness.
Anything added,divided,multiplied or subtracted to or from it is still itself. 1+1is 2, but 1+0 remains itself, 1.
2+2 is 4, but 2+0 is 2
If we add 1 to 0,we get 1,but that +1 comes from the source or ground of 0. What comes from zero carries the "essence", of zeroness from which it came. Anything added,subtracted,divided,multiplied to 0 is of the nature and comes from the ground of 0. 

If 0 is the absolute reality,anything other than that is a manifestation from that, and not the absolute truth or absolute reality. What appears as a reality/or multiple realities is of the essence and/or nature from which it came. That of zero or nothingness.

Just some musings floating around.

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by who chit

[cetus]

46 minutes ago, who chit said:

If 0 is the absolute reality,anything other than that is a manifestation from tha

@who chit That's just the tip of the iceberg. What is less then zero?