Eckhart Tolle

[Paul92]

Hi everyone,

I've recently read the Power of Now and been watching numerous ET videos on YouTube. I have to say, I am now in a worse position that I have ever been in my entire life. To the point where I am seriously considering the prospect of suicide or admitting myself to a psychiatric hospital if I can. I just want to say a few things about ET first. I don't want to die, but I don't want to be thoughtless (which you will say is my ego).

I am not anti Tolle as a person. I don't think he's someone who is doing it all for the money. I don't think he is trying to deceive people. I think he is genuine enough. But I also think what he says can be very, very dangerous.

I started reading the PON as I thought it would be a book about how to be a better person. My dad had told me that it had helped him to stop ruminating so much about different things, something with which I've struggled with from time to time. Indeed, I used the approach from him explaining it to me a few times when I was in stressful situations and it helped calm me down. Out of curiosity, I thought I'd get stuck in to the read of what Tolle teaches.

The dissolution of the ego. Or more plainly, the dissolution of the thinking part of our brains. People can say what they like here, about how Tolle words what he is teaching in his books. However, ultimately, what he is teaching is a form of nihilism. It really is. And what's more, he is right.

Essentially, nothing matters. Suffering and pain aren't real emotions. That is what he is saying. If someone is done a perceived injustice (that we have socially constructed as an injustice), such as someone has physically harmed them, or their families, they have no reason to feel aggrieved or even have a negative emotion. If someone comes into my house now and chops my arms and legs off, Tolle would say accept it, live in the now and you won't suffer. If I suffer, it is my ego. Thinking logically, this is true. I would have a choice whether to suffer. What does it matter if I have arms or legs? Emotions are not real.

Nothing is real. Everything is a thought, which isn't a thing. Our thoughts are conditioned because of hundreds of years worth of social constructs. Essentially, anything goes. We needn't feel bad for any behaviour, because whatever we do, essentially is neither right or wrong. There is no adjudicator.

Even in the sense that you think you love someone. You don't. How mind blowing is that? I saw a video with Tolle (before he was with Kim), and he said that relationships should be avoided. They are social constructs, again. Love, as much as suffering and pain, isn't real. I thought I loved a girl. I would have jumped in front of a gun for her. But love isn't real. You don't love anyone. Because if you are in the now, which is your true self, you have no thoughts. To love something, you need to have thoughts. It cannot work. Therefore, love is based on a thought, that essentially is ego, which is not you. 

Nothing matters. Everything is a construct. Tolle says he enjoys spending time in nature, which he sees as beautiful. But isn't the idea of nature being beautiful a social construct too? Who says it is? Why do we think anything is interesting or beautiful? That is a thought, which isn't you. 

Why do you get out of bed and go to work? Why do you study? Why do you watch TV? Why do you socialise, when your friends are doubtlessly ran by their egos, which isn't them? As such, your friends are illusions. They are not real. Nothing is real, everything is an illusion. This is EXACTLY what Tolle is getting at but he might not have worded it as such. 

Yes, I could live in the 'now'. But how do I function if I have no thoughts? I would urinate and defecate in this exact spot which I am laid. How do I chose what to eat with no thoughts?

Tolle's answer for everything is to be in the now. The now cannot be bettered. Nothing compares to the bliss of the now, because if you are not thinking. Of course the now will be a type of bliss, as there are no thoughts. I saw him on Oprah's show on YouTube and they was talking about people grieving. He didn't word it as such, but what he was saying was people are grieving over nothing and they choose to suffering. Do not grieve over your loved ones when they pass, because they, for one thing, they are illusions, two you cannot love them, and three there's nothing you can do to bring them back. It makes absolute sense.

So cutting to the chase, why am I here when I could accept the now and none of this would matter? I should be content with just existing.

Because I can't yet cease thinking entirely. And more specifically, I don't know if I want to (you will say, ah this is your ego). So I can't win. I am in a state of perpetual suffering as a result. Trying to achieve something that ultimately, you can't and trying to avoid going back to a world of illusions that I now find incredibly scary. My friends are not real, the love I feel for people is not real, everything is an illusion. And I know every single one of you Tolle fans on here know that I am speaking the truth. Tolle cannot write it like this in his books, as it would never be published. 

My world has come crashing down. I LOVED my life. I was content. I FELT things. Happiness, sadness, euphoria, excitement, nervousness, heartache. But these emotions are just illusions, mere thoughts that aren't real. I now have no desire to anything. See friends? No, they're illusions. See family? No, they're illusions. Go to work? No what's the point, it's an illusion and creates a false identity.

If you are a Tolle follower, why do you do anything?

The last vestiges of my thinking mind realise that I have two basic functions. To survive and to procreate. These are biologically preprogrammed. These are the only things that are 'real' to me. So, while I want to die (this is a genuine thought, as nothing matters. Indeed, having spoken to a number of enlightened folk online over the past few days, they have agreed that it doesn't matter if I live or die. If I want to die, then die. My family and friends will suffer, but as we know, that suffering isn't really who they are. The real 'them' would not care, as those emotions are born out of the ego). 

What do I do? I am stuck. I anticipate many of you will just say accept and submit to the now. 

My point is, I don't see how this truth (it is the truth, you can deny it as much as you like, but this absolutely what Tolle and others with similar messages are getting at in a round about way). can lead anyone to a state of happiness of euphoria, as these aren't real either. Ulimately, a tiny bit of my disgusting egoic brain tells me that perhaps it is better to leave people in their unconscious lives of ignorance. It is all an illusion, sure. But they don't know that. It's that or nothingness. How can't this truth, ultimately, lead to people just dying? And again, what would that matter? It wouldn't. 

Edited January 5, 2019 by Paul92

[Arhattobe]

Ideas that are not understood, without nuance, hijacked by your mind, perverted and watered down can have a negative impact on your perspective and clarity. Aim to understand. Don’t force understanding it will not work.

Furthermore, non duality or being thoughtless doesn’t not mean you don’t care about anything anymore. That’s a load of bullshit. If someone murders tolles family he won’t just sit there and be like... “my wife was a concept... the power of now”. 

I speak from experience. I am in a thoughtless non dual state, this has not made me unfeeling. Nor does it do that to anyone. 

So relax. 

 

[Paul92]

3 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

Ideas that are not understood, without nuance, hijacked by your mind, perverted and watered down can have a negative impact on your perspective and clarity. Aim to understand. Don’t force understanding it will not work.

Furthermore, non duality or being thoughtless doesn’t not mean you don’t care about anything anymore. That’s a load of bullshit. If someone murders tolles family he won’t just sit there and be like... “my wife was a concept... the power of now”. 

I speak from experience. I am in a thoughtless non dual state, this has not made me unfeeling. Nor does it do that to anyone. 

So relax. 

 

You're not thoughtless, otherwise you wouldn't be able to write that reply, or indeed, have the opinion that what I am saying is wrong. Which is your ego. 

With no thoughts you cannot feel anything. And thoughts are not you, are they?

If someone murdered Tolle's family, I don't think it would bother him one bit, as committed as he is to this. He knows everything is an illusion and not real.

[Arhattobe]

@Paul92 You sure got me. You clearly understand all this non dual stuff. Well done.

[Paul92]

@Arhattobe I swear to you I am not trying to be provocative. I'm absolutely not trolling. I am speaking from a place of serious anxiety at the moment. But if you really read and think about what I have said, the logic is there. It cannot be refuted. 

A tiny tiny fighting part of me is basically wanting to find a way out of this. And to somehow get my old life back. I know this is my ego fighting the truth, which I should accept. Everywhere I go, I question everything. As I say, my friends are not real, they're illusions. The love I felt for people, it's not real. Nothing is real. It's disorientating to think that we are existing in nothing.

[Arhattobe]

Didn’t think you were trolling. Maybe reread the first paragraph I wrote. That’s it for me in this thread though. Good luck

[whatishappeningtome]

Watch this video:
It can be very depressing when you first learn about the truth. When you REALLY learn. But you get used to it

 

[Paul92]

@whatishappeningtome He says at 11:33 that if you someone struggling to pay your mortgage, with a wife and kids and no job, spiritual enlightenment isn't something to be worrying about right now. Why? Isn't that whole situation an illusion? If you walk away from it, kill yourself even, it won't matter, will it? Sure they will suffer, but their suffering is an illusion... and it more their problem than yours. People talk about enlightenment, but it is as if they cherry pick the bits they want to adhere to. If you take it as truth, and look at it logically, you will find that really nothing actually matters.

[Forestluv]

@Paul92 This is a common reaction to the realization that the ego is an illusion.

The self will resist and come up with all sorts of strategies to keep itself relevant and to control the narrative inside the head.

Saying everything is meaningless, is itself assigning meaning. It’s not meaningful or meaningless. 

That the self is an illusion is to say it’s not what you thought it was.

It’s not like you used to have a self and suddenly “lost” it. There hasn’t been a self your entire life and you’ve done just fine. That whole life you described that you love was without a self. 

Life after this realization is liberating. The joy, appreciation, wonder and curiosity go beyond what you can imagine. The realization just needs to mature. As well, there is an energetic shift toward self-less motivation. You will begin to want to do things not based on needy fears and insecuruties, but from a higher source. 

I would recommend starting a daily meditation practice and learn to observe thoughts that arise in the mind without judgement or criticism.

[Shin]

Anxiety can only be there if you identify with the mind.

You will only understand what ET really means when you will distance yourrself from it.

For now you're totally engrossed in the fantasy of the mind, you're its slave.

Don't try to fight it though, that would be the mind fighting itself ?

 

 

 

 

[cetus]

@Paul92 Sounds like you have a serious case of ego backlash there my friend. The ego hates truth when it comes up against it. It like when the Great Oz gets exposed for what he really is. A little poser hiding behind a curtain creating an illusion.

[Paul92]

How can anyone experience joy, wonder and elevated curiosity even following a realisation? To experience these things, you have to think, surely? These things have to be illusions. So we are continuing to live an illusion, aren't we? You know it makes sense.

For instance, you might say that you reconnect with nature and that you find it so beautiful. But who says nature is beautiful? Why do with think this? That is a thought, which means it isn't real, surely?

What breaks my heart is knowing that my friends have never been what I thought. They are illusions. It sounds ridiculous, but I think of the girl that I thought I loved, and I just want her to hold me and tell me everything is okay. But she isn't real. She's a figment of my imagination. 

How can anyone not be destroyed by this? If this isn't evil, what is? 

[Shin]

12 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

@whatishappeningtome He says at 11:33 that if you someone struggling to pay your mortgage, with a wife and kids and no job, spiritual enlightenment isn't something to be worrying about right now. Why? Isn't that whole situation an illusion? If you walk away from it, kill yourself even, it won't matter, will it? Sure they will suffer, but their suffering is an illusion... and it more their problem than yours. People talk about enlightenment, but it is as if they cherry pick the bits they want to adhere to. If you take it as truth, and look at it logically, you will find that really nothing actually matters.

 

The thing you don't understand yet, is that it is real.

As long as you experience something it is real.

Their suffering is real for them, and not for their ego, because the ego is an illusion, a misconception in our mind.

If you actually do this, you are actually becoming the evil you point outwards you.

Reread what you wrote, this is purely egotic.

 

[Amun]

People please tread carefully when replying to such posts. Man is talking about having suicidal thoughts. It's no place to mysterious or crpytical. Your being is all there is in your experience and so far in your paradigm you believe your ability to experience to be tied to your body. You do not yet have experience of what it is like to be "thoughtless" as you put it. Don't give away what you have for what you don't yet have. Don't take it too seriously at this point. It doesn't look to me like a healthy way to advance. 

[Paul92]

4 minutes ago, Shin said:

 

The thing you don't understand yet, is that it is real.

As long as you experience something it is real.

Their suffering is real for them, and not for their ego, because the ego is an illusion, a misconception in our mind.

If you actually do this, you are actually becoming the evil you point outwards you.

Reread what you wrote, this is purely egotic.

 

 

I just don't understand how this can be. Why am I evil if I throw myself from a bridge this afternoon? Because sat here right now, I don't see anything stopping me whatsoever. Because it does not matter one bit. 

Why is their suffering real? To suffer, which is an emotion, which is born out of a thought, is to think. And thinking, ultimately, is an illusion. Therefore, their suffering is not real, is it? They could turn that emotion of instantly, and be who they really are. Which is a living and breathing entity, but with no thoughts.

I got into all this stuff because I wanted to just be a better person. Self-improvement. Perhaps learn to judge others less, which I never thought I did anyway. I never thought of myself as an egotistical person, in the traditional sense. I've never strived to be something I'm not. I thought I knew who I was, the good and the bad and I accepted them. But this is all an illusion.

I do feel like people cherry pick everything. If you are to be enlightened as you think you are, nothing matters. There is nothing. Everything is an illusion. You think you are posting on this forum, but you are not. 

I just went to make some noodles to eat (I have zero appetite at the moment). I thought I will eat this and then I will take a shower. But that is thinking. That is not me, is it? Tolle says it in black and white on his website, "you are not your mind". 

I thought I should go see my mother, she will be missing me. She's devoted her life to me. But she isn't real, is she? Be honest here. She isn't! She's ruled by her mind, which isn't her. She doesn't really love me. Her real 'self' wouldn't even recognise me. What sort of world is this? You will just say accept it. Well, I think I might as well accept that death is inevitable one day, it won't matter, so why not now?

[Forestluv]

@Paul92 Your mind is trying to interpret and create a story about what this means. It wants to control the narrative in the mind. Rather than let go and surrender, it will fight back by saying things like “this is awful, this is evil, we can’t go there”.

Your mind is trying to claim understanding for terms like “nothing”. Yet, spiritual beings use this term differently than what you currently understand. You are catching a glimpse into some deeply profound insights. 

This isn’t some new truth that suddenly occurred. It’s been this way your entire life. It’s like realizing Santa Claus doesn’t exist and going into a depression that you won’t get any more presents. Yet, Santa Claus never existed and was never the source of the presents. 

Discover your True Self. It is an amazing journey. Beyond what you can imagine.

The love for your mother and girlfriend goes much deeper than your mind can currently imagine. 

The mind will continue to think, it is the relationship to those thoughts that change. 

Right now, you strongly identify as being your thoughts. To see beyond that, start meditating and focus on the breath. Everytime a thought arises, label it as a “thought” and return to the breath. Eventually you will come to know that the real you is not your thoughts. 

There are other practices that relax the mind and allow for insights, such as yoga and listening to spiritual teachers - such as Lisa Cairns, she is very gentle.

[pointessa]

@Paul92  If you go to some place like Disneyland , or watch a really great movie you can become immersed in the experience. It's true that it is not reality in the classic sense, but you can suspend that understanding and become immersed in the experience, all the while being aware at some level that this is not your consistent reality. Would you refuse the experience because in some sense it is contrived? You can experience all aspects of it, even the scariest aspects because you know this is not your consistent reality. Would you choose to go through your time at Disneyland or watching the movie and not savor the experience because it is fake?

I think the essential message from ET in The Power of Now is about living in the present moment, rather than being dominated by the  world  as interpreted by the egoic self.  This is actually a liberating thing. Experiencing life without labeling everything as bad, good, liked or dislikes is freeing in many ways. You are immersed in this experience. If you can immerse yourself in it while living in the moment, while not being dominated by the egoic self, you will have accomplished a lot.  It is a process of removing the layers of delusion created by the ego in the head.

[Shin]

29 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

 

I just don't understand how this can be. Why am I evil if I throw myself from a bridge this afternoon? Because sat here right now, I don't see anything stopping me whatsoever. Because it does not matter one bit. 

Why is their suffering real? To suffer, which is an emotion, which is born out of a thought, is to think. And thinking, ultimately, is an illusion. Therefore, their suffering is not real, is it? They could turn that emotion of instantly, and be who they really are. Which is a living and breathing entity, but with no thoughts.

I got into all this stuff because I wanted to just be a better person. Self-improvement. Perhaps learn to judge others less, which I never thought I did anyway. I never thought of myself as an egotistical person, in the traditional sense. I've never strived to be something I'm not. I thought I knew who I was, the good and the bad and I accepted them. But this is all an illusion.

I do feel like people cherry pick everything. If you are to be enlightened as you think you are, nothing matters. There is nothing. Everything is an illusion. You think you are posting on this forum, but you are not. 

I just went to make some noodles to eat (I have zero appetite at the moment). I thought I will eat this and then I will take a shower. But that is thinking. That is not me, is it? Tolle says it in black and white on his website, "you are not your mind". 

I thought I should go see my mother, she will be missing me. She's devoted her life to me. But she isn't real, is she? Be honest here. She isn't! She's ruled by her mind, which isn't her. She doesn't really love me. Her real 'self' wouldn't even recognise me. What sort of world is this? You will just say accept it. Well, I think I might as well accept that death is inevitable one day, it won't matter, so why not now?

 

You'll have so much fun realizing you're bullshitting yourself in a little while ?

So much mental masturbation ???

 

 

 

 

 

 

29 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Paul92 said:

@whatishappeningtome

 

 

 

Leo, the forum, on mobile.

Thank you ?

 

[Paul92]

@Amun There is no way back though. My old life is an illusion. Every time I woke up last night, I felt sick. Nothing is real. 

 

@Serotoninluv  I don't think it is evil. I think it is what it is. Ultimately, it is the truth. What/who is my true self? As I understand it, it is my body but with a mind that produces no thoughts. None. Akin to a vegetable if you like. With only 2 primary inbuilt desires. 1, to eat. 2, to procreate. No opinions on anything, no labels for anything, no emotions, nothing. 

I might identify with these thoughts, but aren't they the truth? In the same way that you believe you understand the truth. But then again, they are thoughts, so they aren't you, are they? For all of us to be our true selves, we wouldn't be writing on here. So nobody can claim to be at one with their true selves. 

If I'm to meditate and label a thought as a 'thought', isn't that 1, thinking, and 2, labelling something?

 

@pointessa  I know that movies are not real. But we are entertained by them. But now it is more than they are not real. If I watch an actor in a movie, I just think, he is not real. He is an illusion. He is ruled by thoughts, which are not him, so it isn't real. 

I went to Disneyland when I was a child. I loved it. Same as I loved all sorts of things. Going to football matches, watching football, playing guitar, socialising with friends, listening to music. Christmas has just gone, and it was so nice to get just sit back and enjoy the ambient lighting, a few drinks with loved ones and do whatever we liked for a change. But it was all an illusion.

That warm feeling I got on Christmas day will never return. I'm not and never have been that interested in presents by the way. I'm not materialistic. I'm especially not now. But also, the warm feeling I got when I got a text message from a girl I thought I loved. The warm feeling when I would spend time with my parents after not seeing them for a while. I will never experience that again, will I? Because I know now it is not real and not me. So even if it comes along, I will recognise it, and label it as fake. 

 

They say that ignorance is bliss. And I think I agree. Everyone else in the world is living in a fantasy land. But you know what, it works for them, doesn't it? They have a life. Ups and downs. Some strive for perfection, others don't. They have families. They live, laugh, love, lose and cry. They enjoy things. They hate things. The experience the world. They experience their thoughts, their own very chemistry. I'd love to go back to that world. It wasn't perfect. It wasn't real, but I didn't know that. But now I can't whether I like it or not.

I watched Leo's video that is posted above. He says this might not be the time for pursuing enlightenment. But what he doesn't appreciate that, once you have glimsed the truth, there is no going back, ever. And if you are not in a position to pursue it fully, which is to become a thoughtless being content with being fed, which is the ultimate state, then you will never get there. You are left in limbo, which is the worst position ever. One route out for me. 

[Paul92]

@Shin I don't think I will. Call it what you want, and judge me (I didn't think judging was a part of being enlightened) if you like. But to me, that is the truth. I don't see how it can be any other way. Everything is an illusion and nothing matter. The only thing that is real is to be thoughtless. That is who you are.