5-MeO-DMT Freebase to HCL

[Enizeo]

It is already hard enough to get hold of some 5-MeO, but all I can find is the freebase version. People seem to prefer this version, as all guides on how to convert it are HCL -> freebase, but never the other way around.

Leo has stated on the megathread that it is pretty easy to convert, but never said how. Multiple people have asked on the thread, but I've found no answer.

So does anyone actually have a proven method on how to do it? Thank you in advance!

[outlandish]

You add it to an acid, which reacts with the freebase to form a salt. An easy and foodsafe way if you're going to plug it is to add it to some plain old vinegar. It should react with the acid in the vinegar and form an (acetate?) salt in solution.

Someone more knowledgeable on the chemistry will pipe in I'm sure, hopefully with some precise method.

[Enizeo]

9 hours ago, outlandish said:

You add it to an acid, which reacts with the freebase to form a salt. An easy and foodsafe way if you're going to plug it is to add it to some plain old vinegar. It should react with the acid in the vinegar and form an (acetate?) salt in solution.

Someone more knowledgeable on the chemistry will pipe in I'm sure, hopefully with some precise method.

Sound quite interesting. If no one comes in with some first hand experience my best bet is probably to just try it out. I'll post results if and when I decide to do it.

[Enizeo]

Bumping this once more because it's quite important to me and probably other people

[Bluff]

sorry I have no answer but I would like to know what freebase and hcl means

[Girzo]

@Bluff Freebase is just a 5-MeO-DMT molecule in it's plain base form.

The other one is a salt of 5-MeO-DMT + HCl.

Why would you add a HCl acid to 5-MeO? To change it's physical properties. Main difference from psychonaut's perspective is that salts are soluble in water and less caustic on your tissues while bases are way easier to vaporize.

[Enizeo]

@Bluff And specifically: HCL form can be plugged, which seems to be the best way to take it for our purposes

[outlandish]

@Enizeo if you're looking to convert it just for the purpose of plugging, I'd just use white vinegar. Measure out your desired dosage of the free base, and then add the minimum amount of vinegar necessary to dissolve the freebase.

You could do this by putting your freebase on a spoon, then adding a few drops at a time of vinegar, stirring with something tiny like a thumb tack. Keep adding and stirring until no more freebase oil is visible - at that point the base should have all reacted and gone into solution as a salt. You'll have a solution that should have the minimum amount of acetic acid remaining (close to none) and it should be easy on your rectum. Not that a bit of vinegar would be damaging at all anyways.

Mmm (5-Meo) salt and vinegar.

[Enizeo]

@outlandish Thanks man, I'll try it out and post the results. It kinda sounds like an insult to how the brits eat their chips "Salt and Vinegar? Stick that up your ass!" 

[Hsinav]

@Enizeo

I,v earlier posted this on the 5-meo mega thread, this is really easy and works!

Just make sure you use 100% pure acetone

1) Completely dissolve 1000 mg of freebase DMT in 50 ml of acetone.
2) Completely dissolve 309 mg of fumaric acid in another batch of 50 ml of acetone.
3) Mix for 2-3 minutes and evaporate at room temperature to give DMT fumarate.

[outlandish]

9 hours ago, Hsinav said:

@Enizeo

I,v earlier posted this on the 5-meo mega thread, this is really easy and works!

Just make sure you use 100% pure acetone

1) Completely dissolve 1000 mg of freebase DMT in 50 ml of acetone.
2) Completely dissolve 309 mg of fumaric acid in another batch of 50 ml of acetone.
3) Mix for 2-3 minutes and evaporate at room temperature to give DMT fumarate.

If this recipe is for converting DMT freebase to fumarate (and not just a typo), the amounts will be different for 5-MeO-DMT because it has a different molar weight than DMT (ie. if you compare the same mass of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT, the DMT sample will have more molecules in it because the molecule itself is lighter than the 5-MeO-DMT molecule, because it is lacking the methoxy group.)

I'm not good enough at chemistry to calculate the correct numbers for this, but just FYI @Enizeo

[Enizeo]

@outlandish @Hsinav Thank you! I'll try the vinegar method first I think, for obvious reasons, but if that does not seem to work I'll probably test that one too. It might take a while though, because I don't even have any 5-MeO yet.

[Hsinav]

19 hours ago, outlandish said:

If this recipe is for converting DMT freebase to fumarate (and not just a typo), the amounts will be different for 5-MeO-DMT because it has a different molar weight than DMT (ie. if you compare the same mass of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT, the DMT sample will have more molecules in it because the molecule itself is lighter than the 5-MeO-DMT molecule, because it is lacking the methoxy group.)

I'm not good enough at chemistry to calculate the correct numbers for this, but just FYI @Enizeo

Yes it´s originally for DMT but I've made the conversion on 5 meo with great success :). You may waste some potency (?) with this so its probably not optimal but a very easy and reliable technique.

[FractalFlux]

@Hsinav @Enizeo @outlandish
The recipe for 5-Meo-DMT:

M(5-MeO-DMT) = 218.29 g/mol
M(Fumaric cid) = 116.07 g/mol

The formula we need for this:
M = m / n
In words: Molar mass (g/mol) = mass (g) / amount (mol)

Let's do this with 1g of 5Meo.
M = m / n   <=>   n = m / M
n = (1g) / (218,29 g/mol) = 0.004581 mol = 4.581 mmol

One molecule of fumaric acid has two carboxyl groups and therefore reacts with two molecules of 5Meo.
=> We need half the amount (mol) of fumaric acid compared to 5Meo.
(4.581 mmol) / 2 = 2.2905 mmol

How much fumaric acid (mass in g) is equal to 2.2905 mmol?
M = m / n   <=>   m = M * n
m = (116.07 g/mol) * (0.0022905 mol) = 0.26586 g = 265.86 mg

There you go, 265.86 mg of fumaric acid to convert 1g of freebase 5-Meo-DMT into the respective fumarate.
If you use more fumaric acid than necessary you don't lose potency, your solution just becomes sour. 
But, of course, don't do this at home, it is illegal! 

 

[outlandish]

Nice one @FractalFlux! I was hoping a chemistry ace would jump in. A little extra fumaric acid could be a good idea just to make sure you have a full conversion. BTW it's not illegal everywhere bud  

A question about acetone @Hsinav@FractalFlux: is the kind you get at the hardware store safe enough to use for this kind of conversion? Will it leave harmful residues, or do you reckon it's close enough to 100% pure?

[FractalFlux]

One more thing about potency and purity, I think I now understand what@Hsinav was talking about
If you convert a freebase into a salt, the molar mass of the salt will of course be higher.
In this example; 1g of freebase 5-MeO-DMT are equal to 1.27g of 5-MeO-DMT Fumarate.
If you use more fumaric acid than needed you guarantee a full conversion, however the excess fumaric acid won't evaporate, it sticks to the salt.
Therefore the product becomes less pure and less potent! However you will also have more mass than what you started with; the effects cancel each other out, you just have to know about this when dosing.

About the purity of acetone @outlandish :
Depending on how the acetone was produced it can contain byproducts like calcium oxide (harmless) or phenol (toxic! and some part of it will definitely not evaporate but stick to the salt).
There are different grades of chemical purity, listed for example here.
The grade should always be stated on the bottle. I don't know what is sold at your average hardware store, but I certainly wouldn't recommend using technical grade purity. I think you can get high grade purity acetone at any pharmacy, but they will probably want to know what you are using it for, since it is obviously not for cleaning

 

[Hsinav]

@FractalFlux Great! Thanks

[outlandish]

@FractalFlux great information re: acetone, and the conversion. Thanks!

[Isaac Ben]

@outlandish @Hsinav @FractalFlux That was really helpful, thank you kindly everyone.

[Enizeo]

@FractalFlux Sick, perfect answer, thank you! Since you seem to know what you're talking about, can you confirm that the method using vinegar would also work?