From Spiritual Awakening To Depression

[Natasha]

This is interesting:  http://rationalspirituality.com/articles/Ken_Wilber_Ayn_Rand_Rush.htm

"Wilber's concern is to affirm the ego, and transcend the ego, and preserve the ego while ceasing to identify with it and be limited to its worldview".

Sort of echoes with what

41 minutes ago, Dummy said:

Also I think the distinction between ego-transcendence and ego-death is academic. There's no transcending the ego without it ceasing to be your identity, which means ego has to die AS identity. This transition out of the ego as identity, IS death, the only death there is.

At which point it's just another game of semantics to decide whether what remains should be called an ego or not. Something surely remains of what was the ego, so in that sense it's not dead. But nothing remains of the identification as the ego, so in that sense it's not an ego, just a fading echo of limited use and no importance.

 

[Isle of View]

24 minutes ago, Dummy said:

t the time of writing, what I write seems very real and true to me, and I do genuinely look for help, out of desperation if nothing else. But the real point of writing it is not so I can keep believing it, but sothat those beliefs can come out of the shadows and up to the surface, where they can be scrutinized and digested (hence autolysis - self-digestion).

I'm almost always scrutinizing whatever I write, that's why I write and why I've learned not to resist what wants to be written, whether I like it or not (and I often don't like it at all, I mean just look at all the bullshit I spout).

 

@Dummy

You could greatly benefit from the techniques provided in this book, The Artist's Way:

Kind regards, 
Chris

Edit: make no mistake, it's not only for artists. 

Edited April 16, 2016 by Isle of View

[Isle of View]

39 minutes ago, Dummy said:

12 hours ago, Natasha said:

This is interesting:  http://rationalspirituality.com/articles/Ken_Wilber_Ayn_Rand_Rush.htm

"Wilber's concern is to affirm the ego, and transcend the ego, and preserve the ego while ceasing to identify with it and be limited to its worldview".

Sounds like what Jed McKenna calls Human Adulthood. But I don't know. I didn't read the article and I'm only superficially familiar with Ken Wilber. I do know that he is all about development within the dream, more than about waking up from the dream.

That's the distinction Jed McKenna makes between Human Adulthood and Truth-Realization. Most people who are generally considered to be enlightened are actually Human Adults. And not everyone who is Truth-Realized is a Human Adult, although usually they probably are.

Point being that enlightenment is not a stage of development. Although a decent measure of development is generally recommended in order to better accomodate enlightenment, and sometimes the distinction on the path is not clear cut, because in practice there is overlap.

@Dummy, @Natasha 

This may be interesting to you:
Yoga and Ego: Sophisticated Ego, How to Face Your Inner Self

(Recommended reading also for people who "fight" their ego.)

~Chris

Edited April 16, 2016 by Isle of View

[Natasha]

5 minutes ago, Dummy said:

Here's why I don't want to indulge my addictions anymore such as the one recently discussed. See Leo's latest video.

They're not actual needs, they're only fuel for sustaining the egoic condition. The reason for not indulging them is not fear, in fact it's fear and avoidance that are the reason for indulging them. Fear of emptiness, as Leo points out.

That's the stuff ego is made of. Moreover, indulging them is actually the source of the pain, not the solution to it. Hope you understand that this is what I've been trying to say, here and elsewhere. And when Mooji talks about "being unplugged" (remember that video you posted in my journal), this is what he is talking about.

 

"What I want to do here is I want to talk about the root cause of all of these addictions, because they only have one ultimate root cause. And that is fear of emptiness." -- Leo Gura

 

 

"Occasionally when someone comes to this point of seeing, I will tell him go home and get inside your sleeping bag, and zip yourself in, and marinate in your contemplation. Don't go to the chai shop, don't go to the supermarket, don't go to the pub. Incubate in yourself, don't know anything [...] You stay empty. And gradually everything will settle down." -- Mooji (that whole video is basically Mooji describing what Leo calls "sitting alone in a room and doing nothing, without any distractions, and facing that emptiness head on.")

I do that too, and after everything gradually settles down, life goes on - you got to eat, make a living, go in the nature (I live by the ocean, so I often go there), interact with some people, etc. These are the kind of 'needs' I was talking about, not the addictive neurotic stuff 

Honestly, if I had a getaway from it all somewhere in he woods or mountains, I would do it. Even as a child, I preferred quietness and being alone. Less distraction has always been better for me. I just recently downsized, cleaned up my diet, don't have a cell phone, had my U-Verse cable turned off, got rid of some furniture and books that were just sitting around and taking space.. I'm making emptiness, both inward and outward, my friend. It's been really empowering to me. 

 

[Aladdin]

On 14 April 2016 at 1:13 AM, Henri said:

@Aladdin  Thanks for your story.

Yes, hard times can be there to wake you up, to get back to the point; `Where`s life about`.

This is the human experience and during time many answers and solutions are given to this existential problem. And I`m telling you, good answers are given to that problem over time.

Can you tell a bit more about yourself?

What`s your age, do you have any experience with spiritual practise like meditation, yoga or whatever? What`s your look upon life nowadays, your orientation? 

Kind regards

Hello , 

I'm 25 years old and a Muslim who and does practice  prayer on occasions but not very consistent . Well the way I pray is like doing yoga well atleast to me it feels that way.

 

i believe in God existence and a big fan of doing good and giving charity but it's not always easier when you drop from high state of conciousness to a low state of conciousness and right now it feels like a real challenge.

 

:))

[Aladdin]

On 14 April 2016 at 2:21 AM, Isle of View said:

Hello Aladdin, 

It sounds to me, that something happened after 8-9 months that triggered the previous "way of thinking".

This can have an array of reasons, here are just from the top of my head:

• you met somone from the time before your "awakening" and this experience triggered the "old you" (for example because he/she wasn't convinced that you changed, or wasn't appreciating your new way of being)
• Somehow you came to the conclusion that you can't hold on to your "new you", for some reason or the other, something happened that you didn't expect could happen again.

There are many more possibilities what could have happened. If none of the above, please check yourself what it was that happened right before you lost your "new found state" or (if that sounds better to you) "new way of being".

The good news is, you can recover it.

Like @Henri said, it would be good if you tell a little bit about your practise. What you have done so far. Your age. 

Also: what happened before your "new you" emerged? Have you changed location? Or have you changed the environment (though still living in the same place)? Or have you used any practise what so ever? Read an enlightening or inspiring book that resonated with you?

~Chris

It's really hard to say I think it may be both the reasons you mentioned above . But if I do figure out the reason what shall I do next??

 

thanks

[Isle of View]

Hello @Aladdin , some days passed since you initially opened this thread. So therefore I bring your opening post back to view ;-) 

On 13.4.2016 at 9:13 PM, Aladdin said:

hello everyone

Basically from childhood i was a quiet kid and  and from around high school up until college didn't really speak much was kind of lost and really shy . i did not really socialise and only had a few close friends and was isolated and probably seen as a wierd by most people. i started to realize as i was growing up that i was insecure about the way i looked, the reason why i felt insecure was that i was not getting much attention from the opposite sex and was seeing the cool kids picking up girls and talking to them and there was me chatting to a few friends and not being outgoing. i wasnt really into education most of my childhood like from 7th to 11th grade i used to always give up and never really put the effort, i would get good grades sometimes but hardly ever and was quite average on an academic level. i dont want to go really deep into my childhood but i had really bad childhood and horrible memories that i try to forget but sometimes it does creep up in to my mind but i always just attempt to brush them off. when i got  to university i thought of joining the gym to bulk up as i was a really skinny guy and needed to gain some weight as i felt like i needed to improve someway to strengthen my confident and appearance . then i have my family  who are really controlling as i was growing up , i did not feel like i was treated well and mentally i was not in the right place at times.As i was growing up and did not get the love i deserved as a child  and my parents would tell me to get good grades and i just wasn't putting in the effort as a kid and i wasnt a violent kid  however i was actually a really good kid , ive always believed in being well behaved and helping people and staying positive but i was never really getting the help that was needed mainly because ive never really opened up to anyone . 

So i was going through a on and off depressive state most of my life then one day my way of thinking changed i started to forget because i started to socialise in university more and was just distracted by the life of meeting new people then suddenly one day i felt a new me ( i think i was enlightened or awakened) and felt like a new born baby, this was mainly because i was getting the attention and love random people would show me, it was truly a magical experience and ive never felt so powerful in my life i would literally get approached and people would look at me and be like wow youve changed'' you look so different and happy'' etc. so then 8 to 9 months later i hit depression again and it really took a big chunk out me like this time the depression was 10 times worse then ever before, i felt like ive been deprived of true happiness. this really effected my education and had to drop out due to this depression and i just really need to find a solution. i hope someone can give me some advice on finding my self again. 

i do apologize for any spelling mistakes and etc 

Then you shared some more about yourself. :-)

11 hours ago, Aladdin said:

Hello , 

I'm 25 years old and a Muslim who and does practice  prayer on occasions but not very consistent . Well the way I pray is like doing yoga well atleast to me it feels that way.

i believe in God existence and a big fan of doing good and giving charity but it's not always easier when you drop from high state of conciousness to a low state of conciousness and right now it feels like a real challenge.

 

11 hours ago, Aladdin said:

On 14.4.2016 at 11:21 AM, Isle of View said:

Hello Aladdin, 

It sounds to me, that something happened after 8-9 months that triggered the previous "way of thinking".

This can have an array of reasons, here are just from the top of my head:

• you met somone from the time before your "awakening" and this experience triggered the "old you" (for example because he/she wasn't convinced that you changed, or wasn't appreciating your new way of being)
• Somehow you came to the conclusion that you can't hold on to your "new you", for some reason or the other, something happened that you didn't expect could happen again.

There are many more possibilities what could have happened. If none of the above, please check yourself what it was that happened right before you lost your "new found state" or (if that sounds better to you) "new way of being".

The good news is, you can recover it.

Like @Henri said, it would be good if you tell a little bit about your practise. What you have done so far. Your age. 

Also: what happened before your "new you" emerged? Have you changed location? Or have you changed the environment (though still living in the same place)? Or have you used any practise what so ever? Read an enlightening or inspiring book that resonated with you?

~Chris

It's really hard to say I think it may be both the reasons you mentioned above . But if I do figure out the reason what shall I do next??

 

 

It really depends on what you find.

From what I see now (and my guess may be wrong) your strife comes from contradicting convictions.

For some time you left your convictions behind and flew high up into the skies :-)

And sooner or later someone "reminded" you of your "place" in the world, your duties, things your are supposed to be, to do...

It's not that I think someone said it to you (someone may have), but something triggered your "doubtful thinking". You weren't as sure that your new way of approaching life is "right".

Check for limiting and for contradicting beliefs. And with belief I don't mean "religion" but your own conviction about what is right and true and what is not.

 

Some examples for contradicting beliefs are:

• I think it's ok to live my own life VS. I shouldn't live my own life, because I have obligations
• It's ok to work on myself VS. my father/uncle wouldn't approve me working on myself
• I can decide what I want to do in my future VS. only God decides what I am supposed to be in my future
• my religion is good and just and promotes love VS. television says my religion is dangerous

(Nothing of the above needs to apply to your situation. Those are only examples.)

 

12 hours ago, Aladdin said:

But if I do figure out the reason what shall I do next??

Irrespective of what it is that you find or if you find anything at all: believe in yourself (this can amount to: I am alive, God loves me and I am an important part of creation).

Pray if you feel like that. If you think you should pray more, pray more. Find peace with God and it's absolutely OK to ask for guidance "from above".

Find your true mission in life! Embrace that you are different than others in your environment. 

 

:-)

Kind regards, 
Chris