I am not sure if I should have fully committed to her

[Hardkill]

Hey guys, believe it or not, but I have a girlfriend now and she's very hot with a sweet personality. Also, she's about 13 years older than I am. I know that I complained a lot on this forum about having been so sexually frustrated before and feeling so hopeless about my dating, sex, and romance life. However, I think that I am finally getting my payback after all of these years of dealing with so much agony from all of the heartaches I've had throughout my whole life, destroying my ego, doing a ridiculous amount research on attracting women, and going through the trials and tribulations of getting the results I wanted with women, as well as constantly still figuring out what women really are sexually attracted to (which is still something that I of course am continuing to do). I've dated this woman for over 8 months now, which is by far the longest dating period I've ever achieved with any girl ever in my whole life. Hell, my previous personal record was with this asian girl who I went out with for only 6 dates in a row over a period of about 4 months. Yet, I've now been on so many dates with my girlfriend that I can't even count at all how many we've actually been on. 

However, last week, I told my her that being non-monogamous should be acceptable as long as it is 100% completely honest between all of you. I said to her that there are guys I know or I've heard of who had or currently still have more than one serious girlfriend and/or wife(s) and that all parties have been perfectly fine with each other. She got upset when I said all of that to her on that night. The following morning, after she dropped me off back to my place, she didn't let me kiss her goodbye or even hold her hand for a moment before I got out of the car because she said that she really didn't really appreciate what I said to her the night before.  

When I told my parents all of this, they said that I really insulted and her and that I should apologize to her and tell her that you really only want to be with her. So, I did that same night and patched it up with her. However, it was at that moment that I declared my full commitment to her because I felt pressured by her and my parents to do so. I am not sure if I did the right thing now.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Hardkill

[NoSelfSelf]

She thinks of you as an exclusive relationship and you saying that makes her feel she just another girl nothing special to you ....that queastion (in title)only you can answer...

[Shadowraix]

Not as many people are open to poly or open relationships. But if you are either of the two and don't feel satisfied being in a monogamous relationship it will eat at you to stay in it because you are repressing a part of yourself. 

I had a similar conflict with my ex whom was really upset that I was ok with having sex with other women if it was allowed in the relationship.

If you are monogamous and the conflict is just her not liking you accepting poly relationships existing maybe she took it the wrong way like you suggesting you want a more open relationship. I also went through this with my ex. 

[CreamCat]

TJ Reeves was in an open relationship with three girls who knew well about the nature of their relationships with TJ Reeves. One night, the sister of one of his girl friends was involved in a car accident. At the same time, his another girl friend was sexually assaulted. He had to pick one. He visited the sister of one of his girl friends, waited for 3 hours, and left the hospital for the one who was sexually assaulted. When the girl friend at the hospital asked "Are you going to your another girl friend?", he said "yes". That broke their hearts and his heart. In reality, open relationships don't work out well. That's why you should commit to one person at a time. Serial monogamy, whatever, ..

Also, because your girl friend is 13 years older than you are, she must be at least 33 years old if you are 20 years old.

From 33 years old onward, women experience rapid decline of their reproductive ability. By the age of 35, it becomes difficult to give birth. By the age of 40, it becomes very difficult to get pregnant or give birth to a child. This is why men are genetically hard-wired to be attracted to younger girls with good genes. Other kinds of men became evolutionary dead-ends. What I'm saying is that women in their 30s feel desperate about making a family and giving birth to children if they ever want to make one. Some women are not interested in marriage or family.

I think your girl friend wants to marry someone, if not you, soon. So, think wisely. If you don't want to marry her, end the relationship as soon as possible. She wants a marriage soon.

If you want open relationships, you should look for young girls who are not in hurry to make a family and who are open to open relationships.

Edited January 4, 2019 by CreamCat

[Shadowraix]

@CreamCat it's not that they don't work per se it is just many people jump into it without being developed enough to handle such types of relationships. So they end up hurt because they still have things they need to work past. 

Too much fantasy not enough real world experience I see is the culprit to people moving into it too fast. 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Shadowraix

[Azote]

25 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

One night, the sister of one of his girl friends was involved in a car accident. At the same time, his another girl friend was sexually assaulted. He had to pick one. He visited the sister of one of his girl friends, waited for 3 hours, and left the hospital for the one who was sexually assaulted. When the girl friend at the hospital asked "Are you going to your another girl friend?", he said "yes". That broke her heart and his heart. In reality, open relationships don't work out well. That's why you should commit to one person at a time. Serial monogamy, whatever, ..

Imagine having more than one kid. They can get in trouble simultaneously... Having kids doesn't work out well, I guess. Or more than one loved one of any kind, for that matter. 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Azote

[Leo Gura]

14 hours ago, Hardkill said:

I said to her that there are guys I know or I've heard of who had or currently still have more than one serious girlfriend and/or wife(s) and that all parties have been perfectly fine with each other.

This is almost always a lie. Such situations are almost never stable and filled with self-deception on both sides. In practice what happens is the women are deeply unsatisfied and end up dropping out after a year or two. And it only works from the guy's POV if he's constantly pulling new women into his harem. The guy is burning through women every year to maintain his rotation. But because he's so selfish he's blind to the suffering he's causing these women so it seems fine from his POV, as least until he becomes more conscious, at which point he'll see it and probably stop.

Most women will be crushed when you tell them that you want to see other women. Imagine utter heart-break. That's what she felt when you told her that. It crushed her. To pretend otherwise is quite delusional.

Ask yourself why you want polyamory. Watch out for egoic self-deception here.

Figure out how to relate to one woman first before you start juggling 3 of them at once.

Most guys who want to be with multiple women are immature and terrified of commitment, relationship & intimacy. That's what you really want to work on.

[Andrey]

And how to work exactly on that when every day you are tempted by countless sex goddesses that are looking at you like they want to fuck the soul out of you?

[Hardkill]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is almost always a lie. Such situations are almost never stable and filled with self-deception on both sides. In practice what happens is the women are deeply unsatisfied and end up dropping out after a year or two. And it only works from the guy's POV if he's constantly pulling new women into his harem. The guy is burning through women every year to maintain his rotation. But because he's so selfish he's blind to the suffering he's causing these women so it seems fine from his POV, as least until he becomes more conscious, at which point he'll see it and probably stop.

Most women will be crushed when you tell them that you want to see other women. Imagine utter heart-break. That's what she felt when you told her that. It crushed her. To pretend otherwise is quite delusional.

Ask yourself why you want polyamory. Watch out for egoic self-deception here.

Figure out how to relate to one woman first before you start juggling 3 of them at once.

Most guys who want to be with multiple women are immature and terrified of commitment, relationship & intimacy. That's what you really want to work on.

Wait, I know what you mean, but I am confused. Didn't you say in one of your vids that we humans are actually naturally designed to be polyamorous and in fact we are some of the biggest sluts in the whole animal kingdom? I remember you saying that monogamy is very hard for us humans to maintain, especially when it comes to committing to a partner for a lifetime.

Also, I've been told by many male dating coaches who don't believe in the idea of being a manipulative pick up artist, BUT have said that all young men (from about 18-35 years, maybe even a bit older than that) should not focus their dating and sex life on finding a girl or woman to be in a serious long-term relationship and they instead should use their youth as a golden opportunity to experience dating, hooking up, and having fun with as many girls as their are attracted to as possible for at least a few years (especially if you are a newbie to dating, sex, and understanding women in general). Even though I am 30 turning 31 in a couple of days and already missed out a lot on experimenting with SO MANY girls during my 20s (especially during my early and mid 20s), I am still definitely young enough to do it. IN FACT, contrary to what a lot of guys may believe, men are actually in their SEXUAL PRIME when they are in their 30s, maybe even in their 40s as well. 

Now, I never condone being dishonest with women EVER, especially when it comes to discussing with them what my intentions are with them. Hell, I've never cheated on anyone and don't ever intend to do so because of my morals, honor, and respect for women. Plus, I have no respect for people who betray good, innocent people in any sort of way. That's why I always honest with women about my intentions, whether I am looking for something serious or not.

Also, why have dating coaches said that it is fine to dating and sleep with multiple people so long as you communicate to her in an honest and respectful manner that even though you appreciate them, you still are not looking for anything serious and/or want to see other people?

I am not trying to argue with you for the sake of it or say that you are totally wrong. I am just very bewildered right now and would very much appreciate it if you could please provide me with some needed clarification on all of this.

[Hardkill]

In case you guys missed my question again. Bump

[Hardkill]

Mr. Gura?

[billiesimon]

On 4/1/2019 at 8:55 AM, Leo Gura said:

This is almost always a lie. Such situations are almost never stable and filled with self-deception on both sides. In practice what happens is the women are deeply unsatisfied and end up dropping out after a year or two. And it only works from the guy's POV if he's constantly pulling new women into his harem. The guy is burning through women every year to maintain his rotation. But because he's so selfish he's blind to the suffering he's causing these women so it seems fine from his POV, as least until he becomes more conscious, at which point he'll see it and probably stop.

Most women will be crushed when you tell them that you want to see other women. Imagine utter heart-break. That's what she felt when you told her that. It crushed her. To pretend otherwise is quite delusional.

Ask yourself why you want polyamory. Watch out for egoic self-deception here.

Figure out how to relate to one woman first before you start juggling 3 of them at once.

Most guys who want to be with multiple women are immature and terrified of commitment, relationship & intimacy. That's what you really want to work on.

I totally support the emotional work you are suggesting. 

 

But regarding polyamory... There are several women who suggest to their partner to try it, causing them to suffer. So it's not a male egoic fantasy at all.

And even if you give her monogamy, she is going to chase other guys behind your back out of boredom. 

At this point it's just fair to keep an open relationship. Neither men nor women can appreciate commitment. 

Edited January 6, 2019 by billiesimon

[Shadowraix]

On 1/4/2019 at 2:55 AM, Leo Gura said:

Most women will be crushed when you tell them that you want to see other women. Imagine utter heart-break. That's what she felt when you told her that. It crushed her. To pretend otherwise is quite delusional.

That's why you find a woman who wants it from the start. Trying to convert a woman from monogamous to poly will introduce way too many issues. Especially if they are doing it for you and not for themselves.

[Enizeo]

@Hardkill Alright, so here are my thoughts on this, not claiming to be an authority on the subject.

I get a feeling that you feel that you need to be polyamorous because people that you respect have said that it is "right". Would you say that is at least partially correct?
I have been into pickup for quite a while now (actually found Leo through that). Recently though I have noticed that a lot of the coaches are actually not at a level of consciousness that I aim for. I am not preaching any morals here, I am questioning if they themselves know what is good/fulfilling for them and their students. So let's try to take a step back from what we think we know about the whole relationship topic.

An open relationship has the obvious advantage of sexual variety. This will, when handled wisely and consciously, have benefits beyond simple physical pleasure. It will take a high level of emotional maturity from everybody involved to make it work. This is the first problem: even if you are willing to expose yourself to the potential emotional pain that will come from a woman you love fucking another guy (and that might actually be good), you will have to find at least two women that are willing to go through the same. Now David Deida states in his book "The Way of the Superior Man" (recommended) that feminine energy is a lot about the flow of love and emotion in her life. Masculine energy on the other hand is about penetrating the world with your unique gift. Now contemplate this. A feminine women will not have a lot of (authentic) interest in developing emotional mastery in the same way a masculine man will. Feminine emotional mastery is about opening and surrendering fully.
This WILL directly affect you. Because through increasing your consciousness your capacity for empathy and love will increase. Hurting her (anyone for that matter) will hurt yourself. This however is not a type of emotional pain you can leverage to achieve emotional mastery, this is emotional pain you have to become numb to in order to handle it.

So what can a monogamous relationship really give you? A shit ton of growth. You have undoubtedly noticed that intimate relationships are a challenge. Being committed to making one work requires you to work through a lot of your bullshit. This is however also where having been with a lot of girls becomes handy. So this now also became a strategic challenge on top of an emotional one. You will have to think through it, be conscious and find your solution.
A committed intimate relationship will also give you great physical and emotional pleasure. Opening yourself fully to a person willing to do the same it a absolutely beautiful experience. You will learn about each others insecurities, support each other, you will be able to experiment openly with all sorts of sexual fantasies that you guys might have, in a way that you will never be able to with a girl you just met a few months ago and fucked a few times. Now can you develop that level of openness in a polygamous relationship? I guess you could, but do not underestimate the amount of work maintaining a healthy relationship is. Having two at the same time + having the additional challenges mentioned above + following you purpose in life (remember, much more important to a man than his intimacy will ever be) + spiritual growth + friends + family + time to relax... How many hours does your day have mate?
Another thing that will potentially become incredibly important for you: having children. I have a feeling that creating another human life is one of the most masculine projects a man can ever undertake. But be strategic about this. You need to have grown to a certain point until you can face that challenge. Deciding when you are ready is something only you can do, but be strategic about the whole topic. Also take into account your woman's needs here. From everything that I know, being a mother is probably the most fulfilling thing a woman can do. Now that is quite important for your specific case, for obvious reasons.

So these are my thoughts on this. I sincerely think that monogamous relationships, if done right, are way more interesting than polygamous ones. But that is just a perspective, not the truth. I think that you might have to think through the relationship to that particular woman however. She seems to be at a point where she needs commitment. Are you ready for that? I obviously do not know you and can't tell you, but I assume you are not. In that case, be honest to her. Talk to her about it. Potentially keep seeing her, potentially keep having sex with her, but if you can not be her man, support her in finding someone else. Everything else would be selfish. I'm asking you to make a very difficult decision here. Have you developed to a point where you can make the right one, in the right way?

Edited January 7, 2019 by Enizeo
Typo

[Shadowraix]

@Enizeo You talked about pros and cons of poly relationships but not cons of monogamous relationships.

When you realize your capability to create love in the same way you can have multiple friends it can definitely feel inauthentic to love someone but have to moderate your love for other people. I think especially teenagers get early glimpses of liking multiple people but it gets suppressed in a one or the other way of looking at it 

[Enizeo]

@Shadowraix Good point. Do you think it is sustainable though? Considering time, your and your partner's emotions and the whole topic of building a family?

I mean, loving someone does not necessarily mean you need to put your dick in them if the results of that are toxic. And I think we agree that often times they can be quite toxic.

[Leo Gura]

On 1/6/2019 at 8:12 AM, billiesimon said:

she is going to chase other guys behind your back out of boredom.

That's your projection.

[Leo Gura]

@Hardkill The problem isn't that you're being dishonest with women, it's that you're being dishonest with yourself.

Relationships are paradoxical. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

But I don't find maintaining a harem to be too developed or conscious. In my experience people who do that are generally not too developed. They are thinking with their genitals which can't lead to anything good.

[Hardkill]

On 1/7/2019 at 4:59 PM, Leo Gura said:

@Hardkill The problem isn't that you're being dishonest with women, it's that you're being dishonest with yourself.

Relationships are paradoxical. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

But I don't find maintaining a harem to be too developed or conscious. In my experience people who do that are generally not too developed. They are thinking with their genitals which can't lead to anything good.

Ah I see. So, it's more about how much I honestly want a polyamorous relationship or not. 

 

[Hardkill]

Wait guys, I actually forgot to mention that monogamy is not going to work for MOST people because MOST people inevitably cheat on their partners, especially if they have been with them for several years. This is because people in monogamous relationships after a while get so bored with their partners and the old relationship energy they have had for so long. This is especially true if you have a high sex drive and even more true if you are with a partner whom you never really were that attracted to.

Most people who have been with a long-term partner won't admit to this and if you ask A LOT of them how great their relationships has been overall, they will instead say stuff like "we've been happily in love and together for 'X amount of years' and not once have we ever cheated on each other." However, the reality is that most people have and will continue to inevitably cheat on their partners. Some of it is due to personal financial issues, incompatibility, individual character faults, etc. However, the truth is that most people were never designed for monogamy ever. Leo, you even said that one of the main reasons why monogamy has always been dominant virtually all cultures around the world is because humans in general have constantly been heavily indoctrinated by religion, the media, practically everyone's family, friends, etc. to have this deeply ingrained belief that monogamy is the "one and only way" to have a truly meaningful, moral, and practical long-term relationship with someone, especially when it comes to marriage. Yet at the same time we of course were never meant to be any sort of polygamist relationships. This is also why polygamy also never has worked out for any human ever (except for an incredibly small amount of individuals who would basically be considered to be the anomalies of sex and love). 

Damn it! I can't believe I forgot about this. I still am at a lost on what to do.