Dream Engineering

[Cepzeu]

An idea crossed my mind a few days ago of whether it would be possible to train dream lucidity and then alter the passage of time in a dream and do personal development in dream time, and whether that would transfer to "real life" results. I.e. train meditation and concentration within the dreamscape.

I've been focusing on inducing lucidity in dreams for the past few nights and have had some success. It's also becoming apparent to me how "real life" is indistinguishable from a dream.

My dreams have become more and more vivid and I became lucid for a moment last night. The techniques I use are dream journaling, listening to 432 Hz binaural beats for 20 min before bed and listening to a recording of myself saying "focus" on repeat for 10 min. 

I became lucid because as I was standing in a warehouse full of boxes in my dream, I heard "focus...focus...focus...focus" in my head and I realised I was dreaming.

I will post more here as I progress to see whether there is a possibility of setting up a place to do personal development in my dreamscape that I can go to when I go to sleep.

If there is anyone who has been successful in doing such a thing please feel free to share  

[ivankiss]

But... You are already doing personal development in a dream 

Like what I read though; keep us updated!

Cool ideas!

[seeking_brilliance]

@Cepzeu awesome, I have thought about using affirmations in my own voice but never got around to it.  Did you come up with the idea or did you read about it somewhere

[Cepzeu]

@ivankiss  Hahah yeah exactly. Hard to get around the semantics when talking about dualistic notions from a non dual POV of reality. 1st world problems

 

@seeking_brilliance The dream journal technique is pretty ubiquitous in the lucid dreaming community. The 432 Hz I actually picked up from Ralph Smart (Infinite Waters, on Youtube). It helps me get really relaxed and forget about the day's worries.

I found it's best to be focused on intending to do the dream work as you drift off into sleep, rather than just having monkey mind about the day's events. That way, you sort of drag conscious awareness as far as you can into your sleeping state. 

The self affirmations came from a video on Youtube bout reprogramming your subconscious mind (sorry I'm not sure what it was called). The gist was that your subconscious controls your autopilot mode, which is what you're in for 95 % of the day, unless you are good at mindful awareness throughout the day. And since most people's subconscious centres around fears and worries about survival etc. rather than a growth mindset, you could in theory, modify your subconscious mind by recording an affirmation and playing it back over the course of the night to develop a more growth-oriented autopilot. BUT, I used this primarily as a trigger to induce lucidity rather than as an affirmation. My recording just says "focus" on repeat, and this was what actually led to my short lucid dream.

I was in the dream state on autopilot, as most dreams go. Then a thought "focus" came into awareness (Keep in mind I play the audio for 10 min before bed rather than the whole night). And I thought about it and mulled it over in the dream, and then BAM! I became conscious of the present moment in the dream.

Given that I've only ever had one other lucid dream in my 22 years, and this one happened pretty much two days into my dream work, I'd say it has potential, so I will investigate further and post here. 

[Cepzeu]

Quick Update:

I seem to have had some sort of ego backlash. After my lucid dream breakthrough, I've started having lots and lots of dreams every night and it's very difficult to remember what happened in order to write it in my dream journal. I think maybe there is a deception mechanism that is trying to confuse my dream awareness and prevent lucidity by bombarding me with multiple dreams at night.

[seeking_brilliance]

27 minutes ago, Cepzeu said:

Quick Update:

I seem to have had some sort of ego backlash. After my lucid dream breakthrough, I've started having lots and lots of dreams every night and it's very difficult to remember what happened in order to write it in my dream journal. I think maybe there is a deception mechanism that is trying to confuse my dream awareness and prevent lucidity by bombarding me with multiple dreams at night.

it's possible. awareness comes and goes, no matter if dreaming or not, so just accept it and have no expectations. Its also possible that the lucid experience unlocked a buttload of subconscious things for you to process, which accounts for the bombarding of dreams. And don't expect to get lucid a lot, 1-3 times a month is normal for experienced lucid dreamers. 

[Cepzeu]

9 hours ago, seeking_brilliance said:

it's possible. awareness comes and goes, no matter if dreaming or not, so just accept it and have no expectations. Its also possible that the lucid experience unlocked a buttload of subconscious things for you to process, which accounts for the bombarding of dreams. And don't expect to get lucid a lot, 1-3 times a month is normal for experienced lucid dreamers. 

Ok, will keep that it mind. Thank you

[Cepzeu]

Update:

I have been seeing a lot of progress in terms of dream awareness these past few days.

My dreams are becoming more and more vivid and the narratives more complex. I feel as through when I'm dreaming, I can "hold more memory" i.e. as I'm dreaming, I can remember where I've been in the dreamscape for longer periods. I think this will be a key later on in becoming lucid as I will have to recognise the inconsistencies and glitches in the dreamscape to realize I'm dreaming.

I think this is how we might construction a sense of time and self consistent narrative in the "waking" world. It's like we've been dreaming for a long time and are now able to store more memory and create self consistency. 

I also noticed how reason and logic is dream specific. Because it contrasts with "waking" reason and logic it's making me notice the relativity of those things and how actually our sense of reason and logic is pretty groundless, we just take it to be "normal" because it's our default position.

These are not new insights per se, it's just that they've become glaringly obvious as I experience my dreams for longer and in more detail.

 

Finally, just to add how I did it. Basically, I've been waking up earlier, waiting a minute and then just snoozing. 

[TheAvatarState]

@Cepzeu Inception! Remember that scene where all the old, sick people came together in the basement just to lucid dream with the help of that substance? I think we've barely tapped the vastness of human potential when it comes to utilizing the dreamscape for personal development. I believe we have dreams for a reason, not only to physically rest and heal, but to explore the deepest parts of ourselves, like a trip. There's this infinite void of possibility here just waiting to be discovered. You're definitely on to something!

On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 8:46 AM, Cepzeu said:

I seem to have had some sort of ego backlash. After my lucid dream breakthrough, I've started having lots and lots of dreams every night and it's very difficult to remember what happened in order to write it in my dream journal. I think maybe there is a deception mechanism that is trying to confuse my dream awareness and prevent lucidity by bombarding me with multiple dreams at night.

That's great that you're aware of this. Did you watch Leo's recent video on ego backlash? This is the same mechanism at play, and understanding it and setting proper expectations is key to moving farther in this field.

What are some things that you'd like to try when you're able to consistently achieve lucidity? I have some ideas, but I'd love to hear yours first.

[Cepzeu]

@TheAvatarState Yeah, I've heard Lions Mane mushroom and Huperzine A can help induce lucidity so I might try those when I can get my hands on some, but yeah, it's possibly a matter of brain physiology (to help induce lucidity)

Yes I've seen the video, I think my backlash came from meditation and not my attempt to lucid dream, as you can make the lucid dreaming an egoic pursuit.

See, regarding your last point, I'm on the fence about it. I plan to first of all achieve lucidity consistently, that's the first major hurdle. Then I plan from there I guess, I will need to explore my dreams first before Im able to see what I (as an ego) can actually do there. However (and why I mention ego), it appears as though becoming non dual awareness (/the Self) makes it irrelevant what happens where because it's all just consciousness. Being consciousness in the dream is the same as being consciousness in the "waking" world. So any illusion of personal development or other egoic puruits would be just that - egoic illusions.

I have had mystical experiences where I realized that I do not control the body whatsoever, it's all happening through infinite intelligence aka a movie is playing. I assume constant realisation of this will transfer to any other manifestation of consciousness including dreams. I.e. a dream is just another movie playing. But when you wake up into "waking" reality it's easy to see that the dream is just a movie. The real work is recognising that the "waking" reality is exactly the same. 

Leo puts it really well in his Life is a Dream video

[Cepzeu]

@TheAvatarState BUT, I can see a benefit of pursuing as many egoic desires as possible in the dream (money,sex,cars etc) in order to get sick of them and transcend the need for them.

Some people claim you can manifest whatever you want in a dream which I haven't experienced but if I can go and be a superhero and play god in a dream every night,I think I would be more focused on life purpose and spirituality during the day. Maybe it can help in that respect

[TheAvatarState]

3 hours ago, Cepzeu said:

Yeah, I've heard Lions Mane mushroom and Huperzine A can help induce lucidity so I might try those when I can get my hands on some, but yeah, it's possibly a matter of brain physiology (to help induce lucidity)

Yeah, I saw those in Leo's Nuutropics video, I'll try those as well. But from what I read and understand, you don't need supplements to do it. It's all practice, like it's almost entirely a trained skill.

 

3 hours ago, Cepzeu said:

However (and why I mention ego), it appears as though becoming non dual awareness (/the Self) makes it irrelevant what happens where because it's all just consciousness. Being consciousness in the dream is the same as being consciousness in the "waking" world. So any illusion of personal development or other egoic puruits would be just that - egoic illusions.

Ah, but isn't it through the egoic illusion that we pursue spirituality? I'm thinking you could use lucidity to use as an interactive classroom of raising your consciousness. There are things you can do in dreams that aren't possible here. For instance, actually interacting with strange loops. Raising creativity. It could be a way to interact with your inner psyche visually. I don't know, I see a lot of potential here. You should know that trying to pursue worldly pleasures in a dream is just as fruitless as pursuing them in real life. Remember, the opposite of that is also true (and more likely), that you could fall into the very egoic desires in your dreams and get addicted to them. Because your lucid dream will feel real, imagine getting free sex with the hottest women without working for it? I think it would sink you in rather than raise you up...

[Leon_Mao]

I've only lucid dreamed twice in my life, but both times the moment I realize I'm dreaming I wake up. Where did you get the 432 beat track? I found some on youtube, but they have music attached to them. Any other tips other tips on lucid dreaming would be appreciated.

[CreamCat]

Life is supposed to be lucid dream. This means that when you are awake, you are having a lucid dream.

Edited January 13, 2019 by CreamCat

[Cepzeu]

@TheAvatarState yeah my original thought was to get proficient at entering lucidity, then modify my dream's time scape and then do spiritual practice. I.e. over one night, I would do like 1000 hours of meditation in my dream. If that's even possible. 

Hahaha yes that would be amazing but definitely a distraction ??

@Leon_Mao I used one of the 432 tracks from the YT channel Infinite Waters, he has a few. Not sure if you will find one purely without music, but let me know if you do.

[Cepzeu]

@CreamCat lucidity in life would be the equivalent of spiritual awakening. Notice how for most people they are not "lucid" for the whole day, they walk around like zombies. 

Getting in touch with the actuality of life would be, as you said, living in a lucid dream.

[TheAvatarState]

8 minutes ago, Cepzeu said:

Hahaha yes that would be amazing but definitely a distraction ??

Distraction from what, you're sleeping!

[Cepzeu]

Update: I've come to realize that there is a huge difference in quality and vividness of dream when I do some form of meditation or breathing before heading to sleep. Relaxing the body and mind and staying focused rather than going to sleep while being stuck in monkey mind as you drift off makes for much more detailed and long lasting dreams. I had a very detailed dream recently and it felt like I was in that "world" for three days. I think this is crucial if I am to gain lucidity - I need to spend more time in the dream world in order to observe the differences between it and the "real", waking world.

Also, I've been considering that it might be possible to be self-aware (as consciousness), while the body and mind is in deep sleep (not dreaming). I remember reading someone's post here on the forum about that. In terms of spiritual work it may prove useful to play around with sleeping conditions so that such a state could be achieved - it may be the case that ego drops off when the body/mind falls asleep and non-dual consciousness may be more apparent without the illusory phenomena arising within it being a distraction (i.e. you will be aware of yourself as a void of nothingness, in "deep sleep"). All of this is just speculation so I will see what I can do and report back.

[purerogue]

You can also try half asleep state, will take some time to get there and keep it at balance to not droop in deep sleep, also probably better to do it when you have no work, or anything else to do next day , because you might not get good enough sleep, at least until you will get used to it. 

Basically you are asleep and awake at the same time and you keep yourself at line between falling in deep sleep and awake state, can really explain how to do it except that you have to try to stay awake and at sleep at the same time.