Self Inquiry Vs Meditation - the Difference?

[zambize]

5 minutes ago, Preetom said:

basically letting things be. Either painful or pleasant stuff. that allowing stabilizes and relaxes the attention.

But one sure needs to be aware consistently not to get involved haha

That's the fucking struggle haha, having to find out what you arent aware you are repressing or getting involved as you put it

[Wisebaxter]

13 hours ago, Preetom said:

Conventional Concentration Meditation = A subject focusing on a particular object leaving everything else alone

Self-Inquiry/Contemplative Meditation = Subject turning it's attention to explore and rest in one's own presence. A total shift of interest and fascination from all objects to the subject itself.

 

That being said, Adyashanti's 'true meditation' is really self-inquiry in it's essence. I've read his book the way of liberation and found them similar. Adya prescribes self-inquiry as well along with 'true meditation'. According to Adyashanti,

In 'true meditation' it is all about surrendering all interest from the contents of experience and simply just be(self abidance). Attention slowly loose it's grip over objects and start to fall back on itself.

In self-inquiry, one reaches the same place. But not through surrender but by an active effort of questioning and trying to turn attention on subject.

I see, so some forms of meditation are more 'self-inquiry,' based, including 'True Meditation.' That's great to know and explains a lot. If that's the case, is the main benefit of concentration meditation the fact that it just calms the mind then? Or build focus? Rather than being the best for enlightenment? Adya says he did concentration meditation for years and in the end he gave it up as he found it too based on control rather than letting go. He says it won't bring you to your true nature.

True Meditation is specifically about letting go of control and just letting awareness go where it wants to. I find this quietens the mind quite nicely. But Leo's description of self inquiry isn't so much about letting go, more about focusing on awareness. As long as awareness is trained on itself, that seems to be the core factor of self enquiry. 

Concerning self inquiry, do all these questions, like 'what am I?' Am I the body? Am I the mind? Not need to be asked? Leo says you just focus on awareness. Maybe the questions are just to get you to the point where you realise yourself as awareness so you can start focusing on it. 

[zambize]

3 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

I see, so some forms of meditation are more 'self-inquiry,' based, including 'True Meditation.' That's great to know and explains a lot. If that's the case, is the main benefit of concentration meditation the fact that it just calms the mind then? Or build focus? Rather than being the best for enlightenment? Adya says he did concentration meditation for years and in the end he gave it up as he found it too based on control rather than letting go. He says it won't bring you to your true nature.

True Meditation is specifically about letting go of control and just letting awareness go where it wants to. I find this quietens the mind quite nicely. But Leo's description of self inquiry isn't so much about letting go, more about focusing on awareness. As long as awareness is trained on itself, that seems to be the core factor of self enquiry. 

Concerning self inquiry, do all these questions, like 'what am I?' Am I the body? Am I the mind? Not need to be asked? Leo says you just focus on awareness. Maybe the questions are just to get you to the point where you realise yourself as awareness so you can start focusing on it. 

https://sites.google.com/site/psychospiritualtools/Home/meditation-practices

I'm so glad this was still on my clipboard, check out the various practices they explain it very well

[Preetom]

41 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

I see, so some forms of meditation are more 'self-inquiry,' based, including 'True Meditation.' That's great to know and explains a lot. If that's the case, is the main benefit of concentration meditation the fact that it just calms the mind then? Or build focus? Rather than being the best for enlightenment? Adya says he did concentration meditation for years and in the end he gave it up as he found it too based on control rather than letting go. He says it won't bring you to your true nature.

True Meditation is specifically about letting go of control and just letting awareness go where it wants to. I find this quietens the mind quite nicely. But Leo's description of self inquiry isn't so much about letting go, more about focusing on awareness. As long as awareness is trained on itself, that seems to be the core factor of self enquiry. 

Concerning self inquiry, do all these questions, like 'what am I?' Am I the body? Am I the mind? Not need to be asked? Leo says you just focus on awareness. Maybe the questions are just to get you to the point where you realise yourself as awareness so you can start focusing on it. 

Yeah concentration meditations are needed to stabilize attention aka keeping it steadily at one place. If attention is fickle, it won't be able to remain with Awareness of its presence.

But it is true that lots of attention on objects will not reveal what you are(subject). If you wanna discover anything, you must attend to it. 

So a good instruction is to keep stabilizing focus through concentration and keep attending to your self afterwards.

The questions are redundant. They are only means to shift attention from objects to the subject.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Preetom

[Wisebaxter]

4 minutes ago, zambize said:

https://sites.google.com/site/psychospiritualtools/Home/meditation-practices

I'm so glad this was still on my clipboard, check out the various practices they explain it very well

Good link. This passage on 'Do nothing meditation' helped answer my question:

"This meditation is closely related to the Advaitic practice of neti-neti ("not this, not that") and to the practie of Self Inquiry as taught by Ramana Maharshi. The techniques are somewhat different, but the intention and outcome are very similar." 

So, maybe it's down to individual preference whether you use 'do nothing' meditation or self inquiry to realise your true nature. I'm wondering if the best approach would be to just use the hardcore self inquiry method Leo outlines where you fix your awareness on awareness, with no 'letting go' involved. Plus it's also building your concentration skill and helping to calm the mind. I think I remember Adya saying something about the 'letting go' being important though, as the universe's nature is acceptance. 

[zambize]

14 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

Good link. This passage on 'Do nothing meditation' helped answer my question:

"This meditation is closely related to the Advaitic practice of neti-neti ("not this, not that") and to the practie of Self Inquiry as taught by Ramana Maharshi. The techniques are somewhat different, but the intention and outcome are very similar." 

So, maybe it's down to individual preference whether you use 'do nothing' meditation or self inquiry to realise your true nature. I'm wondering if the best approach would be to just use the hardcore self inquiry method Leo outlines where you fix your awareness on awareness, with no 'letting go' involved. Plus it's also building your concentration skill and helping to calm the mind. I think I remember Adya saying something about the 'letting go' being important though, as the universe's nature is acceptance. 

Yeah I figured it would, self inquiry questions are from what I understand getting you in touch with the isness, after that you dont have to keep asking the questions, can do nothing from there once aware of your nature 

[Preetom]

52 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

Good link. This passage on 'Do nothing meditation' helped answer my question:

"This meditation is closely related to the Advaitic practice of neti-neti ("not this, not that") and to the practie of Self Inquiry as taught by Ramana Maharshi. The techniques are somewhat different, but the intention and outcome are very similar." 

So, maybe it's down to individual preference whether you use 'do nothing' meditation or self inquiry to realise your true nature. I'm wondering if the best approach would be to just use the hardcore self inquiry method Leo outlines where you fix your awareness on awareness, with no 'letting go' involved. Plus it's also building your concentration skill and helping to calm the mind. I think I remember Adya saying something about the 'letting go' being important though, as the universe's nature is acceptance. 

To be honest letting go and inquiry complements and flows Into one another as one keeps steadily practicing.

Both lead to the same destination which is effortless complete self surrender

Edited January 4, 2019 by Preetom

[zambize]

45 minutes ago, Preetom said:

To be honest letting go and inquiry complements and flows Into one another as one keeps steadily practicing.

Both lead to the same destination which is effortless complete self surrender

I really agree here, some of my best results so far have come from doing inquiry and asking the questions followed by do nothing, flipping between them readily in the same meditation session as necessary 

[Wisebaxter]

So just to wrap this one up guys - we could actually blend meditation and self-inquiry into one session? Where we might flip back and forward between letting go (mediation) and focusing on awareness? (self inquiry). Or should we really be doing some kind of separate practice for both of them each day? 

Perhaps the answer is just to experiment. I just always have this fear that I'm going to be wasting time doing things wrong. I would really love to be able to blend the practices together though, to save time.