Self Inquiry Vs Meditation - the Difference?

[Wisebaxter]

In Leo's new video on self inquiry he mentions that the essence of self inquiry is 'observation of observation' and then adds that this is also what you're doing during meditation. So is there really a difference? Could you incorporate the two practices into one? When I meditate I do Adyashanti's 'True Meditation,' where you allow everything to be and watch your awareness, so this is indeed very similar to how Leo describes self inquiry. Of course there are types of meditation which aren't so similar. Could the difference be that with self inquiry you're not 'letting everything be' so much? Maybe you're exerting more effort into the process of concentration, so there's much more laser focus...

[dvdas]

I made a similar post these days.. I'm currently doing meditation on formless which it seems to be the same as self inquiry. I just concentrate on void and I observe it. I cant tell the difference really.. what confuses me though is that Leo told that meditation isn't so trustable to awaken. 

[Wisebaxter]

@dvdas Perhaps when you have a certain goal, which is to recognise your true self, there are multiple ways to get there. I've heard this said before. You can arrive there through meditation, self-inquiry, contemplation, yoga, whirling, psychedelics even. This then begs the question, which one is the most effective? This might depend on the individual. But I'm just guessing here. The answer will reveal itself to us soon in some shape or form, it always does  

Edited January 2, 2019 by Wisebaxter

[Wisebaxter]

9 minutes ago, dvdas said:

what confuses me though is that Leo told that meditation isn't so trustable to awaken. 

Really? He said that? That's interesting. To be honest meditation confuses the hell out me. I do it every day but there are sooooo many different types of mediation I never know if I'm doing the right one, if I'm sitting in the right way...should I be controlling something? Shouldn't I be? At the moment I'm doing something a bit similar to you, feeling the void, but perhaps without the concentration. I just release 'wanting' and 'effort' and the void kind of envelops me. I guess experimentation and doing your own investigation is important. But the idea that I could spend years doing it wrong freaks me out

 

Edited January 2, 2019 by Wisebaxter

[zambize]

Hi hi, I think a lot of practices really point to very similar things, which if you believe everything is love would kind of make sense.  So self inquiry often involves questions like "what is existence"  "who am i"  and of course you arent looking for an intellectual answer, but you do kind of search with your awareness.  Like where the fuck am I.  This causes me to kind of run into distortions and negative emotions on the edge of my emotional body, which I can address by being concious.  If you just meditate and do nothing,  emotions that you've kind of tucked away and are repressing will naturally bubble up but it seems like self inquiry is a better primer for enlightenment work.  Breadth exercises seem to increase love/conciousness inside of the emotional body and causes it to get pushed against these distortions/illusions, at which point you can let go, and they dissolve for me after a fun bit of pain.  Concentration practices kind of seem to make you more broadly aware of what you are feeling, but you still have to let go of the emotions and let them play themselves out.  It makes it easier to have good concentration, but I suppose it shouldn't at all be necessary.  Contemplation seems to push the logical end and those thoughts may have an emotional reaction that needs to be worked through, but sometimes contemplation just kind of gives you a ridiculous thought you have, and you can justblogically see that it's really dumb.  That awareness can kind of be reclaimed intellectually.  Really all practices seem to attack things we are repressing on the logical or emotional end, which would make sense because if we are love and we are suffering, we probably got some issues we gotta resolve 

[dvdas]

Quote

So, what is the best system of meditation since there seem to be many? No doubt, there are a myriad different ways of meditating. We have more methods of meditation out there than the number of stars in the universe. Alright, that’s an unreasonable exaggeration but you get the drift, I suppose. This method, that method, this way, that way, this system, that system and so on and so forth. What’s noteworthy though is that most of these methods are actually good methods. They work but like any other system, they only work for those who persist. The problem is not with the method per se, it is with the practitioner. My advice? Go back to the basics. Sit down and concentrate or sit down and contemplate. This is pretty much it                                  

                                                                                                                                                                       -Om Swami

source : http://omswami.com/2015/01/types-of-meditator.html

you should read his book a million thoughts. my practice is going great after reading this book. he mentions a lot about types of meditation, posture, attention, do and dont's and how serious you should be about it. he is a master

Edited January 2, 2019 by dvdas

[dvdas]

Quote

16 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

The answer will reveal itself to us soon in some shape or form, it always does  

or in some formlessness 

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by dvdas

[Wisebaxter]

6 minutes ago, dvdas said:

source : http://omswami.com/2015/01/types-of-meditator.html

you should read his book a million thoughts. my practice is going great after reading this book. he mentions a lot about types of meditation, posture, attention, do and dont's and how serious you should be about it. he is a master

@dvdas Yeah I've actually finished his book recently, it is great right? I like how he breaks it down and gives you different types of meditation practices for achieving specific results. The problem is, it kind of confused me more because it made me think, well which one should I be doing? Which one will get me there the fastest? As in 'there' I mean enlightenment of course. He mentions that breathing meditation is good for relaxing, but does that mean it's good for enlightenment? I'm just going with Adyachanti's method at the moment as that seems good to me and I dig his style. I do love Om Swami though and his story. He has cool videos on YouTube too. 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Wisebaxter

[Wisebaxter]

@zambize Love that dude, you broke all that down really well. I'm gonna read that through a few times and soak it in. I like your theory that these practices all point you towards the same goal 

19 minutes ago, zambize said:

Really all practices seem to attack things we are repressing on the logical or emotional end, which would make sense because if we are love and we are suffering, we probably got some issues we gotta resolve 

And then there's the enlightened folk who say that in a non-dual sense even suffering is a part of the whole! Apparently you can be enlightened and still suffer but it just doesn't effect you in the same way as you're not attached to any of it. So maybe you're not suffering....as you can tell mental masturbation is my forte  

19 minutes ago, zambize said:

Contemplation seems to push the logical end and those thoughts may have an emotional reaction that needs to be worked through, but sometimes contemplation just kind of gives you a ridiculous thought you have, and you can justblogically see that it's really dumb

Contemplation works best for me when I'm trying to actually have an experience of what I'm  contemplating. Otherwise it just stays as theory and can seem a bit dumb and detached as you say.

All I can say it, thank God for psychedelics haha. I'll stick to those as my main guide and use these practices as icing on the cake perhaps  

Edited January 3, 2019 by Wisebaxter

[Aakash]

I'll give you another method that i used that i haven't seen any one else ever use lol. 

Literally write down every word of your thought, look at it for like 10 minutes and see what psychological problems/ who actually wrote this. 

I'm going to name this method the... ummm 

Writeway technique - developed by yours truly. it helps if you do it as an addition to any form of contemplation 

tip - don't think about the thing you just wrote about, just keep writing out your thoughts non - stop

[Wisebaxter]

@Aakash Cool man...is that a bit like journalling? I haven't done much of that. I like the sound of the writeway technique. I'll jump on board as one of its earliest practitioners. Just stream of consciousness writing...sounds dope. I like the idea of asking yourself who actually wrote it too. I'll try this and report back

[Aakash]

Dude you'd be the first practioner :') let me know how it goes! leo's version of journalling was like write down the important things you think of. This is just write down everything- read it after and then you'll realise where you are going wrong. IF you'd like it would be helpful to write it up on the forum and people will be able to help you with where your going wrong. AHAHA its probably the easiest technique to use  perfect for a lazy guy like myself ahaha

[Wisebaxter]

@Aakash I'm excited about this. Something tells me it'll be quite powerful. Perhaps it would be more productive to wait until you're feeling a bit negative so all your inner bullshit comes up? 

[Aakash]

:') don't hesitate to write and state on your thread - 'i used the "writeway technique"' and then tell people what the technique is and how to do it in a mini description! ahaha  

kind regards

[Wisebaxter]

I might create a journal for it on the journal section here. Are you gonna post some of your stuff? I'll be sure to name drop you dude as you should get the credit you deserve. You could perfect this technique, develop it further and maybe write a book - could be quite lucrative for you. 

[MTR]

Leo has amazing videos but he won't necessarily be right all the time and he knows that. He's just one of us expressing opinions.

to observe is a thought and a thought is your ego. you can't transform yourself, or become enlightened yet it's absolutely necessary to be.

so what you do? you can't be yet you have to... you simply surrender...

see, to observe is already using the ego to observe... then you can observe the observer.. so on.. none of this is works... the only right thing to do is to quiet your mind - meditate.. and do it so consistently that your brain is changing over time and then becomes in that state that you call enlightened. Observation in my opinion is something you do all the time to prepare your ego, not tied to meditation. Once you meditate, all you do is to quiet your mind and decouple your thoughts from the sense of you.

Meditation is just... not being. Yes you observe.. but not with your own persona, but with the real you, the animal who breathes, once you quieted your mind.

Edited January 3, 2019 by MTR
typos

[Aakash]

@Wisebaxter AHAHA nah no need to worry about name dropping, there would be no one there taking credit for it :'). creativity is infinite! hold onto one idea and you get stuck. But in all seriousness there's no need to write my name just write the techniques name. 

Umm i pretty much used this technique for most of the journey up until concepts broke down in words, you can use it anytime up until the final 20% of the journey, up until then its all you! 

good luck! also just throwing out another joke here but i can't make a living out of telling people to write down their thoughts using pen and paper ahah or even notes on iphone. its impossible! 

[Preetom]

@Wisebaxter

Conventional Concentration Meditation = A subject focusing on a particular object leaving everything else alone

Self-Inquiry/Contemplative Meditation = Subject turning it's attention to explore and rest in one's own presence. A total shift of interest and fascination from all objects to the subject itself.

 

That being said, Adyashanti's 'true meditation' is really self-inquiry in it's essence. I've read his book the way of liberation and found them similar. Adya prescribes self-inquiry as well along with 'true meditation'. According to Adyashanti,

In 'true meditation' it is all about surrendering all interest from the contents of experience and simply just be(self abidance). Attention slowly loose it's grip over objects and start to fall back on itself.

In self-inquiry, one reaches the same place. But not through surrender but by an active effort of questioning and trying to turn attention on subject.

[zambize]

11 minutes ago, Preetom said:

@Wisebaxter

 

In 'true meditation' it is all about surrendering all interest from the contents of experience and simply just be(self abidance). Attention slowly loose it's grip over objects and start to fall back on itself.

In self-inquiry, one reaches the same place. But not through surrender but by an active effort of questioning and trying to turn attention on subject.

I agree with you, I just think interest may not be the best word because if you genuinely feel interest and excitement over the sensations in your body, I feel like surrender interest implies you should kind of repress away your interest in the activity if it comes up.  I think it would be more accurate to say you are surrendering your intent.  Whenever you feel yourself in any way restricting/repressing your experience, that needs to be let go to progress.  Thoughts?

[Preetom]

1 minute ago, zambize said:

I agree with you, I just think interest may not be the best word because if you genuinely feel interest and excitement over the sensations in your body, I feel like surrender interest implies you should kind of repress away your interest in the activity if it comes up.  I think it would be more accurate to say you are surrendering your intent.  Whenever you feel yourself in any way restricting/repressing your experience, that needs to be let go to progress.  Thoughts?

basically letting things be. Either painful or pleasant stuff. that allowing stabilizes and relaxes the attention.

But one sure needs to be aware consistently not to get involved haha