What is positive about meaninglessness?

[Roman25]

I honestly don't see what is positive about all of our lives being empty of value. When I was younger I thought that this was great since you can live your life however you want, but that isn't the case. You still have to go to school, work, abide by the laws of physics, and do other personal obligations.

It's not a theory that nothing matters. The universe itself isn't a biological organism that has a mind that "assigns meaning" to things (most probably). Even a human assigning meaning to something doesn't really change anything about reality. You can think of a dragon in your mind and that dragon will never just pop into the sky. Just like if you think of meaning, nothing will change about reality. Some say that reality isn't real but I like to think that's false. I definitely do understand that our minds hallucinate reality but I wouldn't say that it's not real.

My motivation for a lot of things went down when I understood this. Usually if I have a strong desire for something it usually gets turned down since there is no reward for me fulfilling my desires. If I or anyone else doesn't matter at all then what is the purpose of really doing anything?

[ivory]

I know what you mean. I went through a stage like this. What sort of values did you have?

[ajasatya]

1 minute ago, Roman Edouard said:

what is the purpose of really doing anything?

the purpose of doing things is simply doing things. learning to let go of rewards is an extremely humbling experience.

in zen we say "when we eat rice, we eat rice. when we drink tea, we drink tea". you either learn to enjoy the simple act of doing or your emotional state will be a rollercoaster.

[Amun]

Hello Edouard. When we think about how we decide whether something is positive or not, we tend to take some factors into consideration. For instance it is a negative thing that the weather is bad because you might get wet and you don't want to get wet.(Getting into territory of opinion here) In a similar way you inherently want to keep going like you want to stay dry, so meaninglessness comes as a bad thing to you, when you remove the need to keep going or the need to stay dry, getting wet or meaninglessness doesn't look that negative. Their negativeness is relative to what you want inside. 

[Roman25]

1 minute ago, ivory said:

I know what you mean. I went through a stage like this. What sort of values did you have?

Depends on what you mean by values really. If you mean morality then, I don't believe in good and evil. I tend to think that they are defense mechanisms and that they are highly subjective. But I wouldn't do something like murder or theft since I am a sane person for the most part.

[ivory]

2 minutes ago, Roman Edouard said:

Depends on what you mean by values really

What I meant was, how did you spend your time, what were your motives, etc. Meaninglessness often arises when you start to see the limitations of your value system. What color from spiral dynamics resonated with you the most?

[Roman25]

Just now, ivory said:

What I meant was, how did you spend your time, what were your motives, etc. Meaninglessness often arises when you start to see the limitations of your value system. What color from spiral dynamics resonated with you the most?

I spend most of my time at home learning science, listening to audio books, and playing team fortress 2. There are no spirals imo since that's a subjective concept but if there are then I'd say I'm leaning towards orange.

[purerogue]

You need taste of positivity,  try to get some positive emotions out, it is good to know that you can always walk path of love  and it will give shoulder that you needed. 

Try to meditate and get some light inside you. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by purerogue

[purerogue]

Just now, Yousef said:

@purerogue I like how you are always positive and have a solution to every proplem (or you think you have).

Nothing to do with me here.

[Roman25]

4 minutes ago, Yousef said:

@Roman Edouard take it to it's ultimate end. .nothing at all has any meaning. .including the fact that nothing at all has any meaning.  Now you are left with absolute freedom . You don't need meaning. .you need being. 

But I'm not going to be alive in around 70 years or less so I no longer have a life and I will be forgotten. I don't think anything "good" is stored for me after I die since good is just a concept that protects our survival. I doubt I've ever get to see my friends or family members again. It's a challenge to think positively about life as a whole when I think about reality for what it actually is.

[ivory]

22 minutes ago, Roman Edouard said:

You still have to go to school, work, abide by the laws of physics, and do other personal obligations... The universe itself isn't a biological organism that has a mind that "assigns meaning" to things... My motivation for a lot of things went down when I understood this.

These are signs of spiritual maturity. The idea that we have freedom or control is an illusion. That said, what's in it for you? Well, nothing. Nothing lasts and no matter what you do there is going to be something you don't like about it.  You are starting to see the limitations of a self-centric value system. I could be wrong, but these seem like stage yellow insights.

 

11 minutes ago, Roman Edouard said:

I'd say I'm leaning towards orange.

If I were you I'd start exploring stage green values.

[purerogue]

1 minute ago, Roman Edouard said:

But I'm not going to be alive in around 70 years or less so I no longer have a life and I will be forgotten. I don't think anything "good" is stored for me after I die since good is just a concept that protects our survival. I doubt I've ever get to see my friends or family members again. It's a challenge to think positively about life as a whole when I think about reality for what it actually is.

If you think about reality as it is , then why is it so hard for you to understand that you have  basically 2 options, live miserable life, or live happy life, 

now when you understand that first option does not sound good, you have to work on second, when you will work on second you will understand how silly your worries are. 

[purerogue]

2 minutes ago, Yousef said:

People are coming up with eternal existential that haven't answered by mankind for thousands of years. .and you always telling them it's OK. .you can. .and stuff like that.   Don't get me wrong. ..I'm not offending you. .this is actually a feture. .many wish to be like you. 

But you have to understand. .not everything is so simple. 

No worries , you are not offending me, I am well aware of how simple, or not simple it is , you do not know from where I came to get where I am now. 

It is just your assumption to think that I went trough some amazing life to get here. 

[Roman25]

Even if I want to enjoy life as a whole, I can't. There are much too many things in my life that I objectively feel negative towards. I despise my school and the people at my school, the people I'm around at home, and how I am me and not some other random person. 

Just to name a couple.

[zambize]

9 minutes ago, Roman Edouard said:

Even if I want to enjoy life as a whole, I can't. There are much too many things in my life that I objectively feel negative towards. I despise my school and the people at my school, the people I'm around at home, and how I am me and not some other random person. 

Just to name a couple.

Sorry to hear, a lot of people really get out of their shell in college (or wherever you go!).  Weather the storm, love what you can, develop where you can and maybe keep in mind that we never really are the person we expect ourselves to be in 5 years

Edited January 2, 2019 by zambize

[purerogue]

10 minutes ago, Roman Edouard said:

Even if I want to enjoy life as a whole, I can't. There are much too many things in my life that I objectively feel negative towards. I despise my school and the people at my school, the people I'm around at home, and how I am me and not some other random person. 

Just to name a couple.

You can, get that bs out of your head, do not  let thoughts  control you, you control thoughts and your emotions. 

[zambize]

Just now, purerogue said:

 you control thoughts and your emotions. 

How does one control their thoughts and emotions and who is the one controlling?  

[purerogue]

1 minute ago, zambize said:

How does one control their thoughts and emotions and who is the one controlling?  

There is information how to do it all over forum, internet, I am not going to go in details about something that takes lots of explanation and tons of self practice. Self is  controlling them, you have all the tools to control them, you clearly need certain amount of awareness  to see difference. 

[Sahil Pandit]

Trying to attach something to meaninglessness, lol... 

[zambize]

2 minutes ago, purerogue said:

There is information how to do it all over forum, internet, I am not going to go in details about something that takes lots of explanation and tons of self practice. Self is  controlling them, you have all the tools to control them, you clearly need certain amount of awareness  to see difference. 

Sorry I haven't seen much information on the forums on controlling thought, I'll keep an eye out though