What is positive about meaninglessness?

[FoxFoxFox]

1 hour ago, Roman Edouard said:

I honestly don't see what is positive about all of our lives being empty of value. When I was younger I thought that this was great since you can live your life however you want, but that isn't the case. You still have to go to school, work, abide by the laws of physics, and do other personal obligations.

It's not a theory that nothing matters. The universe itself isn't a biological organism that has a mind that "assigns meaning" to things (most probably). Even a human assigning meaning to something doesn't really change anything about reality. You can think of a dragon in your mind and that dragon will never just pop into the sky. Just like if you think of meaning, nothing will change about reality. Some say that reality isn't real but I like to think that's false. I definitely do understand that our minds hallucinate reality but I wouldn't say that it's not real.

My motivation for a lot of things went down when I understood this. Usually if I have a strong desire for something it usually gets turned down since there is no reward for me fulfilling my desires. If I or anyone else doesn't matter at all then what is the purpose of really doing anything?

The idea is not to make a virtue out of emptiness. That would be just mere philosophy, and it's called nihilism. The emptiness that is attributed to the Self does not fully represent the truth of the matter. This idea predominantly comes from Nagarjuna's Doctorine of the Void, but somehow has been misinterpreted by many people to mean nothingness, or emptiness.

It's more a recognition of the fact that awareness cannot know itself as an object. The void is supposed to teach us that no matter how much we try to ascribe meaning to reality, it will not be true. But you already know this yourself.

[Amun]

I used to feel like that as well, but when you think about it there isn't a solid reason to think of being alive as the ultimate good and death as the ultimate bad. It is quite easy for us to feel that way because our desire to survive is very strong. But when i silence my need to survive, I can't really answer why staying alive should be any better than not staying alive. This isn't inherently good or bad but it is what it is. 

[Odysseus]

"Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced." 

You're free to choose your values intrinsic. But it takes courage to break your inner resistance to live them.

There is nothing to enjoy objectively. Your objectivity is subjective. So you can objectively create meaning for yourself. You create reality. Happiness and suffering are byproducts to this strange-loop.

There might be the Absolute (the "real" objective) in the current moment but I'm not able to grasp it yet. As long as this is the case, I'll rather create than receive. And if it's not there I'll worship existence through creation.

[purerogue]

10 minutes ago, Yousef said:

There is no self.  There's only floating thoughts. The only one can control them is the thinker. .but there's no thinker.  The thinker of thoughta  is itself a thought.  Told you not everything is so simple. .

What are you doing here if everything is just floating thought for you, yes you are right about floating thoughts, but it is awareness that construct upon that floating data, it is in its capacity to take away data, or to add data and you are awareness. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by purerogue

[zambize]

As to what's actually positive about meaninglessness, I think you're starting off with an assumption that lack of meaning means meaninglessness.  Meaning to me just doesnt exist, it's just a word that means something along the lines of some objective life purpose that saves some greater role?  But I cant hold meaning in my hand, I dont feel like I can be aware of meaning.  I prefer this over having a meaning because i can still derive any meaning I want and live the way I want, but I dont feel weighed down by any objective meaning to my existence.  If I want some tea I'll drink some tea, and I'm free from being concerned about whether this tea contributes to my meaning,whatever that means.  I feel like its hard to just BE if you are too worried about making every moment mean more than it does 

[purerogue]

1 minute ago, Yousef said:

If you mean the ego. .no the ego is illusion.  There's no smart mouse  (if you are familiar with pinky and brain) sitting inside your head deciding what thought to think next or what action to do next  . The awareness just watches the show without getting involved in it.  To put it clear. . Beacuse I know we will be dragged to this topic. .there is no fee will. .it's a silly idea .

I am not talking about ego or personality, I am talking about pure awareness in which all thoughts float, there maybe is no free will for you.   

[purerogue]

Just now, Yousef said:

Yes that pure awareness you are talking about is but a container for thoughts ..feeling. .emotions. .etc..

It can't control anything.  What does it even mean to say there's such a thing as controlling thoughts. .who controls them? who is the controller ?!

Ohh please do not give me this non duality stuff, I am have had non dual state, I am talking about something you have not experienced yet. 

[purerogue]

1 minute ago, Yousef said:

Say it. .feel free to explain. 

We are here to help each others.  Share your experience with me. .maybe you are right and I'm wrong. 

I already explained as much as I could. Which of Enlightened masters tell you that there is no free will? 

 

[Amun]

Forgive me for pointing out but it seems to me like there is a my dick is bigger than your dick type of discussion going on

[purerogue]

7 minutes ago, Yousef said:

Haha you didn't "explained " it at all.  You just said that we can control our thoughts. .but you didn't say how. 

All "enlightened masters " say there is no free  will. .but you have to understand I don't take their words on blind faith. . I verified it for myself through self-inquiry  and self-observation.

https://youtu.be/daRAaYpPfOo 

You mean Western new age all knows, who for some reason had enough brain power to question, question of free will and give speech about it.

You can make thoughts to arise, you can change patter in which your thoughts work, you can observe thoughts and react accordingly and I am lost here what thoughts we are talking about here, thoughts our Thoughts as of all that awareness interact with.   

 

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Roman Edouard said:

I honestly don't see what is positive about all of our lives being empty of value. 

Stating “our lives are empty of value” is itself a value judgement. You are judging life to be empty of value.

The mind and body can assign any value it wants (including “no value”). My mind and body would judge touching a hot stove as “negative” and would be repulsed by it. 

If you don’t want to assign value, then go prior to the value judgement (including “no value”) and reside there.

Conflict arises when the intellect tries to assign value or “no value” contrary to the  value the mind and body are assigning. If  the intellect tries to convince my mind and body that touching the hot stove has no value and it doesn’t matter if I touch it or not - there will be inner conflict because that's not what the mind-body is trying to communicate.

[purerogue]

6 minutes ago, Yousef said:

OK. .I'm peacing out.  I bet that  You yourself  don't understand what are you talking about. 

Why you can't speak clearly?

No worries , it is just a thought that you understand, don't understand.   

 

 

[purerogue]

Just now, Yousef said:

@purerogue you are cute.

I meant in literal sense, was not trying to be cute.   

[Roman25]

Sorry that I was gone for most of the day. I had things to do. Thank you all a lot for providing help and giving useful tips. That means a lot to me. I really plan on not seeing things through a super negative filter anymore. I will work on accomplishing that.

[Anton Rogachevski]

Go deeper. Spiritual meaninglessness means consequently infinte possible meanings.

If I may be so rude as to suggest a possible solution:

Your focus right now should be entirely different: learning to see positively, the best way is practicing gratitude diligently and sincerely.

Also learning emotional mastery to know deal properly with negative emotions - this alone will transform your life to the core. Sedona method is king. (Leo has a video about strong negative emotions)

I wish you well,

Godspeed

[Bobby]

make “what is the purpose of doing anything?” A contemplation question.

write it down at the top of a piece of paper, and begin thinking about.

hint: you might begin to uncreate this idea of a “doer”

seeking enlightenment might very well deepen your existential crisis at first. But it’s a long term solution to it. 

Also you could start paying attention to your actions and see if you can clearly identify a doer in them

Now, at a more practical level. I could answer “what’s the purpose of doing anything?” With another question: “what’s the purpose of not doing anything?” See? 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Bobby

[Preetom]

12 hours ago, Roman Edouard said:

Even a human assigning meaning to something doesn't really change anything about reality. You can think of a dragon in your mind and that dragon will never just pop into the sky. Just like if you think of meaning, nothing will change about reality.

hey hey wait a minute. Wait a freaking minute! This needs some looking.

If the augmented layer called 'meaning' doesn't really change what reality is, then what is it that gives a fuck about the presence or absence of meaning in the first place? 

With or without meaning, the Universe is as it is. But who is bothered by this?

9 hours ago, Yousef said:

https://youtu.be/daRAaYpPfOo 

Oh..and this cracked me up big time  

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Preetom

[MTR]

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Usually if I have a strong desire for something it usually gets turned down since there is no reward for me fulfilling my desires

 

 

 

Your ego is just playing a trick on you. What is turning you down is your ego. You don't follow a purpose but an evolutionary path, it's not something you force yourself in but allow yourself in. Your desires will be screening what you really are and the path you would be automatically following instead.

Quote

 

If I or anyone else doesn't matter at all then what is the purpose of really doing anything?

 

 

 

Life has no purpose, purpose has you. 

Quiet your mind and your life will be fulfilled.

As Alan Watts once said:

"Is this participation in the essential, glorious non-sense that is at the heart of the world, that isn't going anywhere, that is a dance, but it seems that only in moments of unusual insight and illumination that we get the point of this and find that this the true meaning of life is no meaning. That its purpose is no purpose and that its senses, nonsense. But still we want to use a dotted word. Significant. Significant nonsense? Yes nonsense it is not just chaos, that is not just blathering balderdash but that has in rhythm, fascinating complexity a kind of artistry. It is in this kind of meaninglessness that we get the profoundest meaning." 

Edited January 3, 2019 by MTR