SD Stage Red - How to integrate if you missed it?

[billiesimon]

I actually think that stage red values are missing a lot in kids nowadays and in my generation too (early millennials).

Studying spiral dynamics and doing shadow work/meditation I have discovered that I have a strongly deeply repressed conqueror side which have been battling against me my whole life. It expresses mainly with obsession with classic metal music, the impulse to run a lot of miles even in freezing cold to keep my anxiety down, and the devastating impulse (only in my mind, never expressed) to react to those who limit my freedom with sheer violence and steel (yes, literally swords and axes in my fantasies).

With my shadow work I've come to realize that it could be my stage red phase that has been totally repressed by my family since the earliest ages. In my family taking a stand for yourself as a kid is a major offence and was punished with very harsh stage blue judgement. Of course my family is very traditional stage blue, and they always treated my first rebellious acts as a small kid as a criminal offense in our family. So I completely repressed them at an early age, and later I've reacted very angrily towards them by developing a strong orange mindset.

 

The point of this discussion is that at the core I'm actually very peaceful and loving as a person. It's my true nature but I believe that stage red lessons are screaming inside me to be reintegrated and the screams are becoming very loud... Also my tone of voice is becoming very loud by the day and it's something that's happening unconsciously.

 

What can I do in practical (and peaceful) manners to integrate these lessons?

[Dan Arnautu]

@billiesimon See my recent thread on it. It's quite detailed. 

[XYZ]

Not so much that they're missing, but repressed by society. Think about it, most of our instinctual behaviors for survival and procreation would quickly get one killed or arrested if done in civilized society. But if/when order breaks down, or first world comforts are removed, and you need to focus on your immediate needs by any means necessary, stage red mode will surface full force. Reading @Dan Arnautu thread now and that seems to be the same conclusion. 

Speaking for myself as someone with a lot of stage red, it feels as though living in ancient times would be easier, even though the standard of living would was terrible and I'd likely have lived a short life and died a bloody death. Because even so, it was a time in which a man could simple take what he needed and wanted from the world, or exchange value for it, through direct persuasion or sheer force, you could get by without playing the petty games of modernity, and mastering the medium of money.

Thus I can understand why many people recommend tearing yourself away form comfort to get un-stuck in life, to fully "embrace the suck" so that your inner warrior will come out. But I'm still afraid to thrust myself into instant survival mode, since, as I mentioned, if I go out and try to just take what I need through force, the result would be death or incarceration.

[billiesimon]

55 minutes ago, XYZ said:

Not so much that they're missing, but repressed by society. Think about it, most of our instinctual behaviors for survival and procreation would quickly get one killed or arrested if done in civilized society. But if/when order breaks down, or first world comforts are removed, and you need to focus on your immediate needs by any means necessary, stage red mode will surface full force. Reading @Dan Arnautu thread now and that seems to be the same conclusion. 

Speaking for myself as someone with a lot of stage red, it feels as though living in ancient times would be easier, even though the standard of living would was terrible and I'd likely have lived a short life and died a bloody death. Because even so, it was a time in which a man could simple take what he needed and wanted from the world, or exchange value for it, through direct persuasion or sheer force, you could get by without playing the petty games of modernity, and mastering the medium of money.

Thus I can understand why many people recommend tearing yourself away form comfort to get un-stuck in life, to fully "embrace the suck" so that your inner warrior will come out. But I'm still afraid to thrust myself into instant survival mode, since, as I mentioned, if I go out and try to just take what I need through force, the result would be death or incarceration.

It's an interesting response but I beg to differ. 

Stage orange is immensely superior to stage red, because it shifts competition in a respectful and peaceful environment where everybody can win using the brain, which is actually the best tool we have as humankind.

Stage red is very bodily and somehow primitive, even though it's VERY important to define the individual man and woman, as it is the stage that defines the powerful will to be an individual that escapes the tribe to conquer his/her life.

 

But once that escape from the tribe is made... you have to find a peaceful manner to live with people and to compete. And brute force is also not the smartest at all... and I'm not even talking about the rules of blue societies.

Science and business are vastly more powerful than a bunch of warlords. Money can build entire cities, while science and brainpower can create deadly mass destruction devices.

There's a reason why stage red is nowadays just a willpower phase in a childs life. Because it has no meaning in a modern society.

[Wyze]

1 hour ago, billiesimon said:

Stage orange is immensely superior to stage red, because it shifts competition in a respectful and peaceful environment where everybody can win using the brain, which is actually the best tool we have as humankind.

Stage red is very bodily and somehow primitive, even though it's VERY important to define the individual man and woman, as it is the stage that defines the powerful will to be an individual that escapes the tribe to conquer his/her life.

Orange IS NOT superior to RED. None of the stage is below or above others. It is rather a progress.

Stage red have its own merits. If you somehow find yourself in the middle of a street gang, your orange is not going to save you if everyone is looking forward to beat your ass.

Integrating Red = understanding survival.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Wyze

[Wyze]

2 hours ago, XYZ said:

Because even so, it was a time in which a man could simple take what he needed and wanted from the world, or exchange value for it, through direct persuasion or sheer force, you could get by without playing the petty games of modernity, and mastering the medium of money.

If society goes back to Red; you have to accept the fact that what you want to others, others can do to you. The winner will be the most physically fit and the type of mind games will be even more intense. There will be no law, no trust, no faith, no tomorrow.

At the moment in our society, Orange exploitation are being watched by Blue (lawfulness) and Green (Activism and empathy). It is this balance that allows any form of "peace".

[XYZ]

7 hours ago, Wyze said:

If society goes back to Red; you have to accept the fact that what you want to others, others can do to you.

Exactly. When self-described incels say that they should get to go and have sex with any women they want, I remind them that such a world would also be one where any gay man can have their ass.

But as I mentioned in the other thread about stage red, because there is such acute awareness of the violent nature of life, and willingness to fight and defend, peace within a tribe is valued, and there's a beautiful simplicity in just being direct, without any ideology or absolute authority.

8 hours ago, billiesimon said:

everybody can win using the brain, which is actually the best tool we have as humankind.

Stage red is very bodily and somehow primitive, even though it's VERY important to define the individual man and woman, as it is the stage that defines the powerful will to be an individual that escapes the tribe to conquer his/her life.

Well, not everyone can win just using the brain as you say, and many lose by getting stuck in their brain, "living in their heads" getting so absorbed in abstract concepts they are disconnected with the physical world and their own body. Healthy integration of stage Red would balance the primitive human nature with our advanced intellectual capabilities. 

[Wyze]

1 hour ago, XYZ said:

But as I mentioned in the other thread about stage red, because there is such acute awareness of the violent nature of life, and willingness to fight and defend, peace within a tribe is valued, and there's a beautiful simplicity in just being direct, without any ideology or absolute authority.

How do you know there will be peace and honesty in a Red tribe? Have you seen the TV show, Vikings? I think its a very good example of Red. The characters lie to each other all the time.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Wyze

[XYZ]

Not so much peace and honesty for it's own sake, but a desire to stop killing each other, knowing that could be the result of wronging someone. It's like a very rudimentary form of peace, through willingness to use force, and much less stable than stage Blue, where there are externally imposed rules to live by. 

In stage Orange, lying, cheating, manipulating  is much more prevalent, because feeling insulated from the violence of primal human nature, people & groups feel emboldened to take advantage of others for their own gains, doing things that would get them killed in a Red/Blue society. 

[Wyze]

You mean like a truce? I don't think thats a good long term strategy. If anything Orange allows people to play out their need for influence and power without actually hurting physically hurting someone (as crude as it is, its a "better" long term strategy).

I don't disagree with you that Orange dominance is going to take it toll on society, honestly I think it already is.

Rather when the society moves into the 2nd tier is what I really envision the world to finally be at a better place.