Are you responsible for your existence?

[XYZ]

My existence is my parents' fault, and I am a victim of circumstance just by being born.

This smells like a strong limiting belief and toxic attitude, but I cant seem to overcome it. All metaphysics aside, my being born was a direct consequence of my mother and father reproducing to create me. Regardless of the ultimate cause of their actions, it is of their doing, they are responsible for making me, bringing me into the world. I had no agency in the matter, I did not choose to exist.  My birth is something that happened to me, I am an effect of that occurrence, not the cause of my own life.

It just reeks of a passive, defeatist, helpless victim mindset though. Is the problem that I'm thinking too rationally about this, when there is really a lot more going on than can be explained by biology and philosophy? I understand the concept of taking 100% responsibility for everything, including my existence itself, that it is one of those counter-intuitive things which creates the success modality, but it's so far form my direct experience it might as well be the story of Santa Claus.

Furthermore, would would the implications be if I did find a way to internalize it, not just as a belief. If I am responsible for EVERYTHING, does it mean I do have free will, and that all of my sufferings in life are actually of my own making?

 

[purerogue]

From my direct experience you have done nothing but whined all this time, without taking any actions and it indeed seems like you hope that changes will come as Santa Claus. 

Yes, you can take control of most of your suffering in life, now stop victimizing and thinking of excuses and  get to work to change your situation. 

[XYZ]

@purerogue

That's your own concept and imagination.

Just like the assumption that I could simply do what you suggested and it would solve my problems.

What is within my reach is to work from both ends, changing my habits and attitudes, while at the same time, asking others for help and guidance, but more focuses on genuine connecting and relating, trying to create social value rather than be a leech. Basically overcoming the helplessness mentality, actually helping myself instead of wallowing, and more actively seeking help from others while not being needy or imposing. Not just posting, reading, watching videos and begging my mom to try harder to help me get some inroads through nepotism.

[purerogue]

Not my imagination, only one imagining here is you, you have all day for you , you do not work, you have all the time for you to grow, instead you ask questions and automatically come up with excuse to answers people give, you can do it for rest of your life , that is fine with me, but I do not think that it is fine that you waste people time when you do not want to put any effort in actual practice.  

[XYZ]

I grow by asking questions, that's the point of this thread. The limits of self inquiry and contemplation are getting stuck inside my own echo chamber and not inviting in different perspectives. Changing my perspective, attitude, beliefs, etc. is an immediately accessible possibility I'm open to, and wanting to make.

This is a different topic, and this conversation a distraction. But I went and looked back at the last one I posted, and you basically told me things just go to sleep, just get a job, it's easy, just do it, you're just making excuses if you cant.

[tenta]

It means you are responsible, that you can choose how to respond to it even if you had nothing to do with it

[purerogue]

5 hours ago, XYZ said:

I grow by asking questions, that's the point of this thread. The limits of self inquiry and contemplation are getting stuck inside my own echo chamber and not inviting in different perspectives. Changing my perspective, attitude, beliefs, etc. is an immediately accessible possibility I'm open to, and wanting to make.

This is a different topic, and this conversation a distraction. But I went and looked back at the last one I posted, and you basically told me things just go to sleep, just get a job, it's easy, just do it, you're just making excuses if you cant.

Do you know how self inquiry is done, please check, because it has little to do with perspectives, but with being honest with yourself and looking at thoughts from neutral side.

How much time do you spend doing self inquiry, or is all of your time spent with body pleasing practices that have very little to do with changing your personality >?

Edited January 2, 2019 by purerogue

[ivory]

10 hours ago, XYZ said:

Is the problem that I'm thinking too rationally about this?

That whole thought cloud you are stuck in will disappear once you become stronger and more authentic. You don't necessarily need to do anything to help it along though. I too blamed my mom for how I was. Those thoughts cleared up after a couple years of inner work. You're not going to see results overnight. When you see yourself caught in victim thinking just notice them. Don't let them affect your behaviors. Do what matters despite how you feel.

[Mu_]

Take what I'm about to say very seriously, because it may be the solution to your desire to get out of your current suffering.

Staring with your first belief.....

Is existence a problem to begin with, in particular yours?  Show me the object called a problem in your life.  Or is this "problem" just a belief that is currently held? 

Is it true that someone is responsible for your birth into this world?  Prove that your parents had a choice in doing it.  Just because they had sex and felt like doing it and talked about it, doesn't mean they had choice.  Prove that it didn't come from a biological mechanism they didn't see and created the choice they thought they had.  Prove there isn't a social reason that underlying their desire to make the choice to have you.  Prove there isn't a "god" behind this all that doesn't influence choice.  Prove that their brains were not wired to make the choice for a kid before they were born.  If you can't, then be true to your desire for proof of something in order to keep holding on to your opinion, let it go and not know, dropping the blame in the process.

Do this with all your idea's your convinced of that cause you suffering and see what it leaves you with.  It may not be easy, but it may reveal what your hoping for, some relief.

[XYZ]

On 1/3/2019 at 3:57 PM, Mu_ said:

 

Do this with all your idea's your convinced of that cause you suffering and see what it leaves you with.  It may not be easy, but it may reveal what your hoping for, some relief.

What I got was: Existence just is, I just am. Even what I believed was the main physical and moral problem, there being a body that needs certain things in life and feels pain when needs aren't met, is only relative to that body, not the I, not existence itself.

@Nahm

I'm seeing how I'm using a victim mindset and focusing on what seem like external limitations as a denial of personal agency, and excuse for not doing what I actually am able to. Thinking too far ahead instead of focusing on what I am doing presently, distracting myself with hoping, wishing, fantasizing. Maybe I'm doing that again right now even. Denial of denial, or having an understanding of an understanding without actually understanding directly.

What I do seem to get now is I have nothing to complain about if I'm not actually doing the small habits which can be done, and instead mope about things I want to do, or wish were different but can't change. Narratives, even my own birth and death, are just mental chatter, concept and imagination. Just after typing that out it occurs to me just how much time and energy had been consumed by wondering why I was born and how I might die, and the values attached to the idea that I was born and that I'm going to die. Letting that all go now.

[Nahm]

@XYZ Ya, let that go. Thinking ‘why’  is throwing a penny down a well, and expecting an answer. It just doesn’t work that way.  Looking into the nature of who you are is more difficult but much more fruitful than looking for why answers, and of course paradoxically answers all the why questions. 

[Mu_]

7 hours ago, XYZ said:

What I got was: Existence just is, I just am. Even what I believed was the main physical and moral problem, there being a body that needs certain things in life and feels pain when needs aren't met, is only relative to that body, not the I, not existence itself.

@Nahm

I'm seeing how I'm using a victim mindset and focusing on what seem like external limitations as a denial of personal agency, and excuse for not doing what I actually am able to. Thinking too far ahead instead of focusing on what I am doing presently, distracting myself with hoping, wishing, fantasizing. Maybe I'm doing that again right now even. Denial of denial, or having an understanding of an understanding without actually understanding directly.

What I do seem to get now is I have nothing to complain about if I'm not actually doing the small habits which can be done, and instead mope about things I want to do, or wish were different but can't change. Narratives, even my own birth and death, are just mental chatter, concept and imagination. Just after typing that out it occurs to me just how much time and energy had been consumed by wondering why I was born and how I might die, and the values attached to the idea that I was born and that I'm going to die. Letting that all go now.

Congrats, thats deep.  Let it sink in and the result be your new baseline.

[kieranperez]

First off, I’m with @purerogue. You’re being called out for being a victim and of course you’re trying to defend yourself rather than just face the truth that you’re being a victim. “I exist so all my problems stem from my parents conceiving me,” is being a whining victim. I’m not trying to belittle you, make you feel small, but to go the degree of ‘my existence isn’t my fault and so all of my shit really isn’t my fault because my parents couldn’t keep it in their pants,’ is just downright whining. That’s not even being a victim that’s just childlike whining.

Also I want to point out for other people when this guy says “all metaphysics aside.” Notice how he only wants Truth when it’s convenient and titiliating. When the rubber meets the road the devil doesn’t give a shit about Truth. 

[brugluiz]

You getting born is not your fault, but your living is your responsibility.

[Mu_]

On 1/5/2019 at 5:15 PM, kieranperez said:

First off, I’m with @purerogue. You’re being called out for being a victim and of course you’re trying to defend yourself rather than just face the truth that you’re being a victim. “I exist so all my problems stem from my parents conceiving me,” is being a whining victim. I’m not trying to belittle you, make you feel small, but to go the degree of ‘my existence isn’t my fault and so all of my shit really isn’t my fault because my parents couldn’t keep it in their pants,’ is just downright whining. That’s not even being a victim that’s just childlike whining.

Also I want to point out for other people when this guy says “all metaphysics aside.” Notice how he only wants Truth when it’s convenient and titiliating. When the rubber meets the road the devil doesn’t give a shit about Truth. 

More love man.  Do you know 100% he's being a victim, if not no need to make claims.  He's sharing his views.  Help him through it, no need to point out "Notice how he only wants Truth when it’s convenient and titiliating. When the rubber meets the road the devil doesn’t give a shit about Truth. "  This is just shaming as I see it.

[kieranperez]

@Mu_ fair. I was watching too much Bill Burr when I wrote that. Apologies. 

[Nahm]

@kieranperez Totally understandable. 

[RichardY]

Lot of projection.

Even in Buddhism a person has relative freewill, if logically thought through. There is "no self"(Noble disciple) which I agree with. There is soul(could be wrong), the I pertains to God, Buddhism has no souls. Middle way no longer applies. Law of excluded middle.

Buddhists aim for Moksha(Liberation), they are aiming to be as God/Perfect. (Absolute Freewill), the Bodhisattva. But then only for a limited time and then that "there can be only one" (perfect). Jainism asserts multiple Gods.

In Buddhism a conscious effort is made to extend the distance between input and response, a state of detachment. To recognise projection, and things asserted, like a self-referential nature of consciousness, a kind of meta-data, like registry entries on a computer. Once recognised to break down the chain of habit.