The whole bullshit of "being nothing"

[SOUL]

On 1/3/2019 at 1:19 AM, now is forever said:

i never said all differences are the same

it‘s about the how not the that. that’s one of the most truthful truths you will encounter.

Fair enough, you didn't use those exact words but when you say this

On 1/2/2019 at 0:51 PM, now is forever said:

@SOUL it is and it is not and it is both at the same time.

it is also not what it is not. maybe not yet.

in response to when I say it is what it is, meaning things are what they are, you certainly are implying that differences are the same.

Since you cite it being the most truthful truths I'll use that as an example. If truth is what it is, it's truth and if it is not as you suggest then it's not truth, that would mean it's also false both at the same time.

So if truth is truth and false both at the same time then it's nonsense to say anything is the most truthful truths one can encounter because it is also the most deceitful deceptions as well.

Things are what they are and they are not what they are not but they are not both what they are and what they are not at the same time, that's just nonsense.

[now is forever]

@SOUL from a dual perspective it’s not nonsense - food is also the absence of food and manifests in hunger. hunger therefore is a nondual expression/feeling of the bodymind for the duality of emptiness and form.

Edited January 4, 2019 by now is forever

[SOUL]

45 minutes ago, now is forever said:

@SOUL from a dual perspective it’s not nonsense - food is also the absence of food and manifests in hunger. hunger therefore is a nondual expression/feeling of the bodymind for the duality of emptiness and form.

Again, I have compassion for people who are self suffering and seeking relief from it only to come across double speak like this professing to be "the most truthful truths". I see right through it though. Your distortion of what is unity is clear to see.

Things are what they are and our perception of them doesn't change what they really are, just what we perceive them to be. Unity simply means that even though there may be perceived individual parts, they are a collective whole that has a relationship with each other to be what they are not that they are the same.

Unity isn't that food is the absence of food, they are what they are, food and the absence of it. Yes, hunger and satiation depend on contrast to be what they are and there this relationship between them within unity but what you are saying is a distortion of what unity is. Maybe it is just a mistaken perception by you of what unity really is.

This isn't even referring to the unmanifest, the infinite potential that is not manifest. Even with that there isn't this one is the other concept because there is no one and other so it cannot be said they are each other. No, what you are saying is just plain contradicting and is confusing people seeking genuine liberation.

You don't even have the 'non-dual' conceptualization down very well but I'm not going to untangle it now.

 

 

[now is forever]

@SOUL sweety you speak as if you where not part of the perspective. and it’s kind of interesting how you try to change the word in my mouth  just because you have a different perspective. 

but the one who’s judging and who’s not open to see it from this perspective is you. so who is the more integrative? maybe i don’t have the conceptualization down very well but why is this triggering you to tell me that?

might be that in a high concious state and state of self controll the truth of emptiness and fullness of the body/mind does not apply for a yogi or meditator or fakir anymore. but as long as we are talking about non duality „form is formlessness“ is an essence of the buddha’s teaching you can’t just so easily overstep. as well as dependent arising. we are talking about that what is and not that what is becoming.

what i declared as truth was a wisdom about the how and the that. i never said i‘m a full master of the how or the that.

 

[Aaron p]

@ivankiss yo. First of all, chill out fam...it's not a drama series. Second, you clearly don't understand the implications of enlightenment and the realisation of what we refer to as "truth". Enlightenment is not a state of mental understanding of *concepts* it is transcendence of all concepts. There is a breakthrough point that must be reached.

But bro, you've fallen into one of the early newbie traps of the mind...the idea that you have encountered the truth. By the sounds of things, you have created another ideology about what oneness is.

 

And lastly, fuck all that "nothing exists" stuff for now. You only need to be concerned with *who you are* that is observing it all. If you are asking any other questions other than that which will reveal your true nature...the questions will not bring you to enlightenment. 

 

So this is good news, don't believe any of the teaching. infact, if you were to believe it...you would be in a other trap. Remember...the ONNNNNNLLLYY thing you need to be concerned about is discovering who you are. And "you" are always in the now, because your memory is not you. If your memory was removed, it would not be powerful enough to remove 'you'. Therefore you can exist independent of your memory, therefore you are not your memory. You are not your ability to envision the future version of yourself...because if this ability to envision the future "you" was removed...it also would not be powerful enough to remove you. Therefore that's not you either. Use self enquiry to discover who/what you are and everything will make sense. 

If you don't do the practise, don't ask questions. You'll just dig yourself deeper into your own bullshite. 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Aaron p

[ivankiss]

@Aaron p Brother. Thank you for your concern. 

Let me assure you; one is fine and not lost.

This thread is an expression. It is art.

It has nothing to do with "truth". I seek no truth. I see through the idea of it.

I express that which I am. The infinite creator.

Enlightenment is a word. A concept. An alarm set to wake one up to it's totality.

I seek no conceptual explanations. I create, move, rearrange. I am that I am.

The intention behind this thread is to nudge those who are still asleep. To let them know;

Nothing = everything. They do not exist without each other. They make love in eternal union.

This is an invitation for conscious creators. 

A reminder of their infinitude and their illusory nature.

No harm was intended.

The harsh words and arrogance here are used as a unique expression of the language this forum seems to be understanding and finding it exciting; fun.

Hence all the movement.

Love.

 

[pluto]

@ivankiss I feel you

Bless

[ivankiss]

Bless you too @pluto ? 

[SOUL]

On 1/4/2019 at 3:25 PM, now is forever said:

you speak as if you where not part of the perspective

What does this even mean?

On 1/4/2019 at 3:25 PM, now is forever said:

and it’s kind of interesting how you try to change the word in my mouth  just because you have a different perspective.

What word did i change? Now you read minds to know intentions of others from what you perceive to be happening?

On 1/4/2019 at 3:25 PM, now is forever said:

but the one who’s judging and who’s not open to see it from this perspective is you.

Did i judge anyone? I made no moral judgements, that's just your erroneous perception. I'm open to someone having their own perspective, I just don't have to agree it's an accurate perception of what is and I can say I don't, this doesn't limit my openness to them having their own perspective. It also has no influence on whether it's accurate or not.

On 1/4/2019 at 3:25 PM, now is forever said:

maybe i don’t have the conceptualization down very well but why is this triggering you to tell me that?

The question really is a matter of why are you so triggered by someone telling you it?

On 1/4/2019 at 3:25 PM, now is forever said:

what i declared as truth was a wisdom about the how and the that.

What you declared is your own personal truth, it's just yours and doesn't make it true for anyone except you.

If someone says to you if you don't believe in Jesus and the bible you're sinful, going to hell after you die and they say this is the truth, does this make it true for you? Does it make it an objective truth in the manifest world and does it in fact happen in your life and death? Is anyone else's beliefs true for anyone else just because they believe it to be the 'truth'?

People can believe anything they want, they can perceive it any way they do, they can have their own perspective or change any of them as they see fit. Waving around the name of Buddha doesn't make what one believes or says the truth, it just makes it their own and whether it's objective truth is based on the correlation between what they say is and what really is, not their belief in it.

Although, our personal experience of it and what we believe about it is our spirituality, this is our subjective experience of it. The nature of this is the way we deal with the pain, insecurity and unknowns in life and death. How we manage this in our 'spiritual life' creates or eliminates the influence of them in our experience of being.

So the exacting details of the way we believe it, perceive it and of our perspective is a personal truth that really only matters to how much self suffering it creates or eliminates in our experience of being. There is no knowing an universal objective truth in spirituality so that one teaches another as some 'master', it's personal, it's subjective and we all have our own experience of it.

My only goal in speaking on spirituality is to encourage people to find their own perspective which brings about the cessation of their own self suffering. It's not about teaching a personal truth as some universal truth, if the results around us are any indication then this quite often does cause self suffering, not cease it.

So one person's spiritual truth is another person's bullshit.

 

[Arkandeus]

Whether you call life a spade, a void, nothingness, whether you call life eternal love, an illusion or a godless atheist evolutionary world.....life is what it is, throughout all these concepts, life simply is what it is  

There could have been thousands of humans before us each and everyone of them describing what they believe life is, each in their own unique way with their own definitions and stories and workings.........in the end they are talking about the exact same thing, in the end they are describing the same thing  

The truth is not debatable, the truth is not discovered, the truth is not agreed upon, we live in the truth of what is, what is now is what's here, life is what it is  

One can continue debating concepts but know that that is a merry pastime, no concept will change what life is, those who seriously want the truth, it is here now, you are living it, and I do not condemn the hobby of debating because here I am taking part  

We are gods, and we jest

Edited January 7, 2019 by Arkandeus

[ivankiss]

3 minutes ago, SOUL said:

So one person's spiritual truth is another person's bullshit.

 

I feel like this sums up everything this thread is about 

But really...

People try to explain the unexplainable way too hard. Not only that, but they completely overlook the fact that they are fighting over concepts and beliefs. Just because you read 1000 books on enlightenment and have a conceptual explenation for everything about it...Doesn't mean you are it.

You cannot put a concept over infinity and try to describe it that way and leave no room for other possible perspectives. That action is working against itself.

You cannot claim to know infinity and exclude everything that does not fit your description of it. It makes no sense.

The question is not "what's true?"

Rather: "how truthful am I?"

"How transparent am I?"

"How accepting am I?"

 

[Joseph Maynor]

6 minutes ago, Arkandeus said:

We are gods, and we jest

Calling ourselves God is a concept too.  Truth is also a concept.  For me Enlightenment included a transcendence of the concept/issue of Truth.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[ivankiss]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

Calling ourselves God is a concept too.  Truth is also a concept.

Use the word "concept" and any other word in a sentence and it will become a concept. 

There is no point in doing that. 

The line between conceptual and actual is obvious to the eye that seeks no longer.

 

[SOUL]

2 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

The question is not "what's true?"

Rather: "how truthful am I?"

"How transparent am I?"

"How accepting am I?"

I might say those questions could be more concisely asked. How authentic are we?

How genuine are we?

How at peace are we with how it is regardless of how it is?

But yea... it's just words. hah

[SOUL]

3 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

The line between conceptual and actual is obvious to the eye that seeks no longer.

Gravity is a concept..... that things fall just happens.

Awareness of just being present isn't a concept but for me to tell another or explain it is a concept.

[SOUL]

11 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Calling ourselves God is a concept too.  Truth is also a concept.  For me Enlightenment included a transcendence of the concept/issue of Truth.

Transcending the concept of truth just is what it is but to tell it to another or explain it is a concept. Hehe

[Joseph Maynor]

2 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Transcending the concept of truth just is what it is but to tell it to another or explain it is a concept. Hehe

Exactly.  It’s hard to communicate what being is.  All you can do is kinda edge around it using concepts.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

13 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

Use the word "concept" and any other word in a sentence and it will become a concept. 

There is no point in doing that. 

The line between conceptual and actual is obvious to the eye that seeks no longer.

Here’s a thing that’s even crazier — even the actual is a concept.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[SOUL]

11 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Exactly.  It’s hard to communicate what being is.  All you can do is kinda edge around it using concepts.

Being is just being.... awareness of being is just awareness of being. Thinking, feeling, talking, eating, pooping, sleeping, farking, dancing, creating, working, meditating, praying and everything else we do are just the things we do while being.......they are activities while being but cannot replace or displace being and cannot happen without being just being in the first place.

Edited January 7, 2019 by SOUL

[ivankiss]

9 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Here’s a thing that’s even crazier — even the actual is a concept.

Was thinking about this myself.

As soon as I stopped thinking, the concept of actuality being conceptual desolved haha.

Being here and now is what is actual. But it may be difficult to be pointed to.

If you aim to declare "everything is illusory", even being here now... I agree. It's all a dream. In all directions and dimensions. No doubt about it.

That does not seem to bother me tho.

It is rather liberating.