Limits of thinking and transcending tier 1 stages

[bejapuskas]

Hey guys, I did some journalling and contemplation work and I realized, that my thinking style is still very rational. Even though I understand counter-intuitiveness, irrationality and other topics, I still try to rationalize them and describe them intellectually in my mind. I also probably still have a problem with embodying them.

Before, I was self-decepted into thinking, that I am yellow-green mostly, but after seeing my thoughts on a paper and after reading SD book, I am pretty sure that I have a lot of work to do to get there, at least in cognitive line of development.

Therefore, I was discussing with my friend, who I consider more developed than me, what are the limits of thoughts, when should we try to understand something intellectually, and which thoughts are necessary and which are completely useless. (I learned that thoughts that lead to action are very good and thoughts that don't do that tend to be useless, but there is probably more to explore there)

This led me to another thought about all this - how do I move from stage orange into green in this line of my life? I should probably start by distinguishing, when it's ok to take things logically and when it is dumb (love). But then? What more is to this? What does yellow look like, is it THAT intellectual?

What is actually useful to master? I see many people doing pick-up, including Leo in the past, but I don't really resonate with it... How much am I missing by neglecting this for example? What are some other things like this? What is there to develop and transcend at every stage?

[Pilgrim]

A concrete action that you could take is to open your heart chakra. This probably sounds silly to you, but it's really crucial to be able to express your emotions freely. If you have resistance towards this, you know you are on the right track. Express love, express admiration, express sadness... if you do not want to express this in person, you can also write it down. Another way to express emotion is through painting or making music or singing. This will increase your compassion too. 

[Forestluv]

@bejapuskas  In terms of thinking lines, rational/logical thought (orange) is followed by cultural relativism (green) and full relativism (yellow). It could also be described as a transition from egocentric/ethnocentric to worldcentric to integrative.

As well, Green includes a lot of human connection and emotions/feelings. Green isn’t a walking analytical head typical of Orange. Green is able to experience empathy, intuition, love, vulnerability and mutual support at a deeper level than Orange.

[bejapuskas]

@Pilgrim It doesn't sound silly at all!  I am not having any resistance with expressing my feelings or being compassionate, I am also drawing regularly all my life.  

@Serotoninluv I am probably open to cultural relativism, I speak multiple languages and I have no problem dealing with someone who comes from the opposite side of the globe... My family members often ask me how come I have so many friends on facebook that come from countries like Japan, Turkey, Brazil etc... Could you say what do you mean by cultural relativism and full relativism?

I don't think that I am stage orange in all areas of my life, I am most likely stage green in most of them, in fact, my friends didn't trust me when I told them, that I probably have some orange areas  

The problem isn't really expressing emotions, being closed off or not compassionate enough... It's more like that I am trying to analyze many things and understand them through some models like SD... I mean, it's painful to think like that all the time, trying to understand stuff.

Maybe this problem goes a bit deeper?

[Pilgrim]

29 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

I mean, it's painful to think like that all the time, trying to understand stuff.

You have to surrender to the fact that you do not know and you will not be able to understand no matter how much you research it ("drop the search"). You seem to have a strong analytical mind so it comes natural for you to think about topics and connect the dots. This can be extremely helpful in certain scenarios, but very hindering in others. Complexity is fascinating, but it can not be fully understood.. there are just too many variables. At some point you will have to accept that you cannot know anything for sure. But maybe it's not painful enough for you yet.. at some point when you totally exhaust yourself with this excessive analysing you might be able to just drop this need to know. And that's when the real transformation happens. 

[Elysian]

In truth, you think you are Orange because tier 2 in SD is put on a pedestal, and so you imagine that you aren't Yellow because you think it's beyond you. You're likely Yellow with shadow aspects in Orange and Green. Don't ever discount your intuition and what you feel is initially right, when you get to higher levels of spirituality it, like Turquoise, your intuition becomes absolutely essential.

The vibrational range known as Yellow is akin to fully integrating the logic of Orange with the empathy of Green, which gives birth to a new level of logic. You start thinking a little deeper as to why things are, and how things are related. Things don't get less logical the more you grow spiritually, they get more logical. They get more logical and more loving. 

Tier 1 thinking is better described as tier 1 logic.

Tier 2 logic is entering the vibrational range known as Yellow.

Even if they don't say it in SD, entering Turquoise is a significant enough departure from Yellow to call it tier 3 logic.

Then there is a shift in logic when entering the vibrational range known as Coral to call it tier 4 logic.

In what is considered high Coral there is another shift that would be the equivalent of tier 5 logic.

And somewhere in Coral or at the peak of it, one might gain access to what is called cosmic consciousness. This heightened state of awareness requires a completely new degree of logic to come with it. This is the first shift in logic that isn't completely vibrationally related, and would be called tier 6 logic.

The SD model doesn't accurately describe these higher degrees of logic, but I think it's intentional in design, to leave those using the model in the dark when it comes to what stages of growth they call Turquoise and Coral.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Elysian
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[bejapuskas]

@Pilgrim So spending more time with my female friends and not talking about self-development for a while might help, right...  

@Elysian Ah, this is too advanced for me now haha.  Thanks to Leo, I am well educated about all these things, so maybe part of me is yellow.

I've always been spending time with people, who are older than me, when I was 7, my friends would be 12. When I played with them, I began to understand so many things, that other kids in my age didn't. So I am an effective learner, I am good at attracting people who push me forward, but maybe this need to know is starting to get limiting...

But how do you grow then, is it just pure practice? What is growth actually?

[Elysian]

30 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

You have to surrender to the fact that you do not know and you will not be able to understand no matter how much you research it ("drop the search"). You seem to have a strong analytical mind so it comes natural for you to think about topics and connect the dots. This can be extremely helpful in certain scenarios, but very hindering in others. Complexity is fascinating, but it can not be fully understood.. there are just too many variables. At some point you will have to accept that you cannot know anything for sure. But maybe it's not painful enough for you yet.. at some point when you totally exhaust yourself with this excessive analysing you might be able to just drop this need to know. And that's when the real transformation happens. 

I disagree with this entirely. Some personalities are more centered around understanding than others, and have an inherent drive for it that is completely authentic. If someone has this natural tendency, and they try to suppress it, it will only breed spiritual stagnation. 

If understanding resonates with you, it can catapult you into higher degrees of spirituality in ways avoiding your true nature never would. This advice would only be applicable to someone who isn't naturally driven to understand the deeper aspects of reality.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Elysian
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[bejapuskas]

@Elysian I am even more lost now, but this is getting really interesting

[Pilgrim]

2 minutes ago, Elysian said:

Some personalities are more centered around understanding than others, and have an inherent drive for it that is completely authentic. If someone has this natural tendency, and they try to suppress it, it will only breed spiritual stagnation. 

I don't think so.. I guess you have to engage in the search, because as you say you have the drive and you feel the need to do so.. so in a sense I agree with you that suppressing it won't help.. but I did not mean to suppress, but to surrender. And that is only possible when you truly exhausted yourself with your thinking. I am very analytical as well and my mind got much more quiet when I finally surrendered to the need to know and accepted I cannot know and frankly at that point I did not want to know anymore either.. it just got too much and I was suffering from my excessive analysing 

[bejapuskas]

@Pilgrim I actually hate physics, chemistry etc., but I like seeng the big picture, the map, where I can go. I am probably not suffering too much, my mental health is getting better and better  But this spiral thing, when I see other people knowing so much about it, I always feel like a beginner and I also want to explore all this things, but I feel like I cannot even trust my mind at this point, because I got self-decepted so many times in my life.

When I think about it, finding these problems in my life is kind of easy, it only takes me to grab a pen and start writing down my thoughts, then it gets much more clear. 

[Elysian]

47 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

 

@Elysian Ah, this is too advanced for me now haha.  Thanks to Leo, I am well educated about all these things, so maybe part of me is yellow.

Studying material will bring you into tier 2 thinking, but it won't take you into what is called Turquoise. I wouldn't say you were Yellow if you weren't in that vibrational range. I was exactly like you when I was in Yellow. Humble and discounting myself as Orange because there was a couple of Orange behaviors I still clung to, figuring I couldn't possibly be Yellow because of how long I was told this all takes. It's a trap how long we're told moving through SD will take, even if it's done so with good intentions,  to avoid people overestimating themselves. You can move much quicker through SD stages, or vibrational ranges, than is advertised.

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I've always been spending time with people, who are older than me, when I was 7, my friends would be 12. When I played with them, I began to understand so many things, that other kids in my age didn't. So I am an effective learner, I am good at attracting people who push me forward, but maybe this need to know is starting to get limiting...

Before you enter what is called Turquoise, you're likely using what is called egoic thinking. It's using conscious thought to try to figure out the world with your brain power.

Through developing the ability to rest in Samadhi throughout the day (best learned with do nothing meditation), you prevent your egoic thought from arising whenever it wants to. The reality is that egoic thought, once you reach tier 2 logic, is not your friend any more. Egoic thought has served it's purpose and needs to be set aside. You do that with Samadhi. This is very important for your well being and further spiritual growth, so I suggest looking into do-nothing meditation. The descriptions of the different stages of Samadhi are unnecessarily complex, but as long as you learn to do do-nothing meditation properly, Samadhi is attained naturally.

A brief, short description of Samadhi stages, for you to refer to through your do-nothing practice so you can judge your progress:

Nirvikalpa Samadhi: resting in the space before thought arises.

Sahaja Samadhi: maintaining Nirvikalpa throughout the day, even when off the cushion. 

Dharmamega Samadhi: Resting before the desire to even control ego, a small but significant jump in surrender from Sahaja.

Dharmamega is the goal, and Samadhi is all about surrender. If you meditate 30 minutes to 1 hour in do-nothing on your work/school days, and several hours a day 2 days a week on your days off, you could achieve Dharmamega in 2 months most likely. Worth the life changing results.

When egoic thought is going out the door, a new form of thought emerges. This is what would be called intuitive thought. This thought, as crazy as it may sound, doesn't rely on brain power, or conscious effort. It comes directly from what one may call Higher Self, the Akashic Records, God. It is the same thing as when you feel something intuitively, except now experienced as a thought. 

This is where everything changes in a huge way. Now instead of being limited by your mind, you are being passed the information you need effortlessly in real time. This is where tier 3 logic begins, and the vibrational range known as Turquoise. 

Your thinking and understanding only seems limited because you reached a point where you don't need to study anymore, you don't need egoic thinking, what you need is a proper spiritual practice to bring you into intuitive thinking, intuitive knowing, so you can start understanding the universe through contemplation and realizations. Think Sadhguru.

The question should be, if studying more feels like a waste of time, what do I need to do to continue growing? Do nothing meditation and vibrational growth is the answer. All SD stages are, are vibrational ranges. A SD stage is a range of vibration that is similar enough to be grouped together. The higher your vibration, the more you heal, the more you understand, and the deeper you love. The more you do do-nothing meditation, the further you get into Samadhi, the less ego controls your life, the more you surrender to what is, the more opportunities for growth present themselves. These 2 spiritual practices go hand in hand.

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But how do you grow then, is it just pure practice? What is growth actually?

Spiritual growth is about recognizing what you aren't, further embracing what you are, and following your intuition the entire way. It's about facing your fears, your lower vibrations, and moving towards unconditional love, your higher vibrations.

That's what the entire trajectory from the lowest human vibrations to the highest is leading you towards. Selfishness to selflessness, hate to love, fear to surrender, ego to intuition. The vibrational ranges known as Green/Yellow is roughly an even mix of low vibrations and high vibrations. There's a deep caring for others and still a highly egoic individual, who cares deeply about themselves, not on a level of self love, but out of fear and a need to be in control.

Don't sell yourself short, even though I'm sometimes talking about stages of growth that are beyond where you currently are, you have the ability to understand what I'm saying, and the logic behind it. I'm using tier 2 logic to explain all of this, so if how I'm speaking to you doesn't sound like a language you've never heard, it means you are using tier 2 thinking and are in the vibrational range called Yellow.

You can google do-nothing techniques, but if you want to know how to grow vibrationally, at least in one effective way, just message me.

[bejapuskas]

@Elysian Thanks so much for the effort you are putting into this.  I will dm you.

[Mu_]

I would say stop worrying about stages and where your at.  They are not there to be transcended as though its a temporary negative holding place to get past into the next one.  Each stage is relevant and a avenue for life.  Embrace the life, the you and the heart/desires you are with right now.  Be kind, honest and thoughtful as your able.  Don't over think your life.  What do you want now?  How can you accomplish that?  Go do it.  Don't do it because someone told you, you have to evolve into stage green/yellow or become enlightened because thats what lifes about, and if you don't you will be unhappy and doing your life wrong.  Again life isn't about moving up a spiral, its about living now, embracing you, the suffering and joy thats apart of it.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Mu_

[bejapuskas]

@Mu_ This is so true wow... Thanks  

[Elysian]

4 hours ago, Mu_ said:

I would say stop worrying about stages and where your at.  They are not there to be transcended as though its a temporary negative holding place to get past into the next one.  Each stage is relevant and a avenue for life.  Embrace the life, the you and the heart/desires you are with right now.  Be kind, honest and thoughtful as your able.  Don't over think your life.  What do you want now?  How can you accomplish that?  Go do it.  Don't do it because someone told you, you have to evolve into stage green/yellow or become enlightened because thats what lifes about, and if you don't you will be unhappy and doing your life wrong.  Again life isn't about moving up a spiral, its about living now, embracing you, the suffering and joy thats apart of it.

All true. If your nature is having the desire to know, to grow, to explore spirituality, what he's said completely resonates with what I've said.

That's how I am naturally, and resisting my natural tendencies only made my life more difficult.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Elysian
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[ivory]

5 hours ago, Mu_ said:

I would say stop worrying about stages and where your at.

I get what you're saying but I disagree with this. Each stage comes with its own level of suffering and dissatisfaction. When suffering increases to the point that you can no longer ignore it, its time to reassess your values. But, because you've been stuck in the same way of thinking for so long it's difficult to know what the next step is. That's where the map REALLY starts to have value. It can save you a lot of time in figuring out how to step out of suffering and move into a more sustainable way of being.

 

5 hours ago, Mu_ said:

Again life isn't about moving up a spiral, its about living now, embracing you, the suffering and joy thats apart of it.

These things aren't accessible at all stages on the spiral. And I would not say life is about embracing suffering, it's about realizing how you can minimize suffering and stepping out of it. To draw from Buddhism, that's what the eight-fold path is all about.

[Elysian]

31 minutes ago, ivory said:

I get what you're saying but I disagree with this. Each stage comes with its own level of suffering and dissatisfaction. When suffering increases to the point that you can no longer ignore it, its time to reassess your values. But, because you've been stuck in the same way of thinking for so long it's difficult to know what the next step is. That's where the map REALLY starts to have value. It can save you a lot of time in figuring out how to step out of suffering and move into a more sustainable way of being.

 

These things aren't accessible at all stages on the spiral. And I would not say life is about embracing suffering, it's about realizing how you can minimize suffering and stepping out of it. To draw from Buddhism, that's what the eight-fold path is all about.

I actually agree with you on everything except life not being about embracing suffering. That's the whole point of life and suffering. Suffering is a mechanism of the universe to push you towards spiritual growth and healing, and you only grow spiritually and heal by facing your pain without judgment of it.

But you are correct, the attitude Mu describes isn't possible for someone of a low stage/vibration, the universe doesn't allow it.

[ivory]

@Elysian I get what you are saying but to be really precise, life is not about suffering. It's an undeniable, ever-present aspect of life. In all of life, there is suffering. Examples include old age, sickness, pain, etc. I'm not saying that suffering should be avoided, but there are ways we can lessen suffering. As egos, we create needless suffering for ourselves. For example, there's a lot of suffering in striving for greatness. Part of growing up is getting clear on how we create suffering for ourselves and how we can let go of that. I do agree with you in that embracing suffering is part of the practice.

Edited December 28, 2018 by ivory

[Elysian]

34 minutes ago, ivory said:

@Elysian I get what you are saying but to be really precise, life is not about suffering. It's an undeniable, ever-present aspect of life. In all of life, there is suffering. Examples include old age, sickness, pain, etc. I'm not saying that suffering should be avoided, but there are ways we can lessen suffering. As egos, we create needless suffering for ourselves. For example, there's a lot of suffering in striving for greatness. Part of growing up is getting clear on how we create suffering for ourselves and how we can let go of that. I do agree with you in that embracing suffering is part of the practice.

Suffering is what life is about because it drives you towards love, healing, and ultimately unity. Life, existence, is about moving towards oneness, on the deepest level. Suffering is the mechanism the universe uses to push beings towards oneness, towards coming together in unconditional love. 

That means that embracing suffering, so you can move through it, towards oneness, is literally what life is about. There is absolutely no other reason for it within this universe. If you develop enough spiritually to understand why this universe is here, and you can, then the reason changes. But at the level of existence within this universe, love and unity is what life and spirituality is about. And embracing suffering is how you move towards love and unity, towards what you are, and away from what you aren't.

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by Elysian
Grammar