Hasn`t Scandinavian countries gone too far with gender equality?

[Alexop]

This is scary man, I lived in Sweden for six months and I have an intention to return but this video shows me how far they gone with this gender equality. If they continue like this, there will be a generation of boys and girls, they will have no idea how to be men and women. Their gender scientists are dumb as fuck, they really believe that there is no difference between male brain and female brain, unbelievable! They are completely ignoring the studies that show the opposite. Yes there are very rare cases where the boy will not get the testosterone that normally gets inside the womb an he will want to be feminine and attracted to the masculine, also the opposite in case of a girl. But fuck man, just wait more until they grow up and have the ability to make a decision and in that moment present them the masculine traits and the feminine traits and let them decide the path, not calling them HEN! Poor kids...

What is your opinion on this? How should they be raised?

Edited December 27, 2018 by Alexop

[Spiral]

 

@Alexop That's just the beginning.

You should check out the documentary: "The Swedish theory of love" 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Spiral

[Emerald]

I doubt that most people in Sweden are actually doing this 'theybies" thing. I think it's still quite a fringe thing and will remain as such. Even in America, there is like a FB group of like 200 people who are into the idea. But it's very fringe.

So my opinion is that it's quite extreme and unnecessary. I think it would also draw too much attention to something so mundane, thus giving it more meaning that it would have before. So, despite the good intentions, it would likely cause a lot of repressions in a similar way that rigid gender norms do. And literally every single person I know thinks something along these lines... including my gender non-conforming and LGBT friends many of whom are all about questioning gender norms and allowing free expression and choice regardless of gender. But none of them think it's okay to raise a kid as a "theybie". 

So, I tend to see videos like this as sensationalist in nature. There may be people out there doing this here and there. But the way the video makes it seem is that EVERYONE in Sweden is doing this. And this drums up a lot of fear in people, which can then be exploited by homophobes, trans-phones, and anti-feminists to make the masses fear that "things are getting a little too PC" to try to dial back progress. 

This can also be exploited by Vice themselves, to get a lot of rage clicks and thus revenue from anyone that clicks on their ads.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Emerald

[Rilles]

Yes! Its mandatory now to have atleast 10 genders! The government cut of my dick and fed me soybeans through an IV! Sweden is truly lost... 

[bejapuskas]

They need to read some Deida

[Alexop]

Well... that is the disadvantage of leading a race, you might get lost and have to turn around and tell the others that`s not the right way. I really love Sweden, I never felt so accepted and understood in any other place, and I respect their courage to be the most progressive. But you know the human mind, always tends to go from an extreme to the other.

[Shin]

 

 

 

[purerogue]

2 minutes ago, Shin said:

 

 

 

Good that you have not lost your humor!  

[Shin]

1 hour ago, purerogue said:

Good that you have not lost your humor!  

It's almost a miracle I'm not banned yet ?

[Azote]

When I was their age, I was such a stupid inadequate fuck. Now those kids are bilingual, handle conversations and express their opinions on camera! Their generation is okay.

[tenta]

Yes ofc, it's not stage green, it's stage orange and they don't care if this fucks up society or not

 

Either there are 2 genders (other than people who have both genitals) or there are none

[RareGodzilla]

too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by RareGodzilla

[SgtPepper]

I think its unnatural and will not last long-term on a societal level.

It also seems unbalanced. There's no masculine qualities in that first family/household. Would be easily taken over by a tribe of warriors 2000 yrs ago. There's no masculine activities being taught in that school besides "building". Their still really young children though, id like to say how they handle this when puberty hits lol.

and their insistence to ignore genitals is hilarious. 

Additionally, children rely on their parents to teach them how to survive in this world. I think it poor to not teach your boy how to defend himself and others. Also these stereotypes, are things the genders want in the other...

Further, I do not think its a problem to be born a boy and participate in "feminine" activities. I just have a problem with ignoring obvious physical difference between men and women.

I like flowers, rainbows, pretty colors, and long hair too. I didn't as a boy. So in one way, I think its positive to raise awareness in boys about getting in touch with feminine nature as well, which I didn't feel I was allowed to. So I see some good coming out of this experiment, but overall, do I think boys and girls are naturally wired differently. 

Edit:

they raise them like girls and then say they're gender neutral. And of course they can't choose between he she or hen because its confusing. They're getting mixed messages. in addition, They're not learning what it means to be a boy/man or girl/woman because they don't give them any REAL examples. Batman doing ballerina? Lmao. They don't even know what they're saying when they say "I am a boy" today! The true responsibility and role of being a Men and Women in human society has not dawned on them due to lack of experience. And the parents also have poor ideas of it because they're so detached from nature in their first world land.

edit 2: Mapa claims that people are uncomfortable with boys having long hair and its not true at all. It's not about long hair, it's about attitude and mission in life. Plenty of men had long hair, the Beatles, Kurt Cobain, and Thor are some examples.

Edited January 7, 2019 by SgtPepper

[Shadowraix]

I do appreciate the dissolving of categorizations it does offer a good perspective in seeing unity but the problem is this does seem to be an attempt to run away from separation instead of embracing both separation and unity. Two sides of the same coin. But I think this kind of thing will continue. Going to both sides of the extreme before you find balance between the two.

Going too far I see as a very beneficial thing because by doing so the country will learn. No better way to learn than direct experience. And once it passes they'll see past the mistakes. In the same way going up the spiral and evolve you see the mistakes of the stages before it.

 

@Emerald Do you think a lot of this stems from trying to dissolve generalizations? In the US projecting how men and women should be is still pretty prevalent. They think getting rid of the category will dissolve the ideology of expecting behavior. Seems more like tackling the symptom of a disease than the disease itself.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Shadowraix

[Emerald]

3 hours ago, Shadowraix said:

 

@Emerald Do you think a lot of this stems from trying to dissolve generalizations? In the US projecting how men and women should be is still pretty prevalent. They think getting rid of the category will dissolve the ideology of expecting behavior. Seems more like tackling the symptom of a disease than the disease itself.

If you mean the people who decide to raise their kids without gender, then yes. They want to liberate their kids from gender as a social construct because they see it as a prison. But as you said, I think of it more as addressing the symptom and not the disease itself. This is because most people will often gravitate toward things that correspond to gender just naturally. So, to discourage gender at a very young age could discourage a child from going toward things they really want to and identifying how they'd like to. So, genderlessness in a sense could become a rigid gender role in and of itself, if a child knows that genderlessness pleases the parent. And they may feel their parents have a resistance toward polarization.

I think if they were to really want to liberate their children from gender constraints, they shouldn't really draw too much attention to gender or being genderless. Then just allow the kids to pick whatever they want to play with or wear. But stick to the binary concept of boy and girl as a simple black and white that children can draw about their own gender at an early age because children need simple answers about their identity early on. But you can also tell the kids later on when they're like 4-6 that some people identify as a different gender than what they were assigned at birth and that that's okay. And that some people don't feel like a boy or girl at all.

I know my daughter took this information very matter-of-factly. And it didn't effect how she saw herself. But just that little bit allows her to realize that there different ways that people can conceptualize of gender, and that if she feels different in some way that she can always do the same. So, no need to chunk out polarized gender, since it does resonate with most people. 

[Shadowraix]

@Emerald Thanks for your reply. Also the kids needing simple answers resonates with me. Reminds me in math class where to teach me a general concept they'll give a simple incorrect form of it and in later education it gets corrected. Helps you not feel overwhelmed.

[Emerald]

33 minutes ago, Shadowraix said:

@Emerald Thanks for your reply. Also the kids needing simple answers resonates with me. Reminds me in math class where to teach me a general concept they'll give a simple incorrect form of it and in later education it gets corrected. Helps you not feel overwhelmed.

The math analogy fits really well. Children need simple answers to create a working model of reality that fits their developmental stage. So, this is why blue in Spiral Dynamics is really important for children to learn. So, giving them a lot of blacks and whites and simplified answers early on, and then adding more nuances as they question things about reality is probably the best way to give kids a good start in life. They need meaning to solidify their existence in the world, but can later transcend the need for rigid meaning and eventually maybe meaning altogether.

[Hansu]

In scandinavian countries, equality of opportunity is pretty much same for everyone with adequate intelligence.

As for forcing boys to be girls and vice versa, I think its minority of adults living their dreams through their children. I doubt that a boy dressing up like Disney princess in school has made their own choice to dress up as one. Its more likely that their parents have unconsciously pressurized them to do so because the parent sees it as a healthier choice than the traditional way of raising a child.

I can only imagine the lifetime of psychological horror that a child experiences as an ego size of his/her school bashes at him at once. Its a neurosis bomb

As for equality, male-female equality is pretty much superb in scandinavian countries, and racial equality is high on education and such but racism has taken a steep growth in the past 10 years, especially among the 40-60 years old.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Hansu

[Spiral]

As for the racism, it’s kinda specific a lot of people are anti “muslim looking people” due to the influx of refugees and immigrants. So people of colour that aren’t for instance Somalis are look upon better. Racist people tend to view people from Kongo and ex-colonies better in other words. It’s not so much about race so much as it is islamphobia.

[Shadowraix]

10 hours ago, Spiral said:

As for the racism, it’s kinda specific a lot of people are anti “muslim looking people” due to the influx of refugees and immigrants. So people of colour that aren’t for instance Somalis are look upon better. Racist people tend to view people from Kongo and ex-colonies better in other words. It’s not so much about race so much as it is islamphobia.

Wouldn't it be more of xenophobia than racism? Seems like racism adopted xenophobia under it's name these day