How can you trust your mind?

[Roman25]

Human beings are clearly naturally very deluded creatures. Everyday, I reflect on dozens of deluded thoughts that I had and it shocks me. I even hold delusion beliefs that I know for a fact are false, yet I still hold them since my emotions have that control on me. When you see religious people or people in cults they are clearly very deluded. It's safe to say that everyone is to many degrees. Makes sense since the human mind is their to aid your survival, not to help you understand the truth about topics that you perceive as "cool" and "interesting." My question is: how can you be sure that any beliefs you hold are true if there is strong evidence that humans are naturally deluded creatures?

[Nahm]

@Roman Edouard If you know finite delusions, the only possibility is that you are infinite truth.

[Jack River]

In your direct experience what co-exists with such movements of delusion? 

Control

fear

effort 

resistance

& etc..

 

obviously belief goes hand and hand with the above, and truth is denied as a result. 

 

Moving within these patterns(seeking shelter in them) implies that truth is not very important to us at all right? 

If truth in daily life was important to us would our action be influenced by control, effort, which imply resistance? 

What is implied in living true? 

Do we see that fear, anger, jealousy (psychological insecurity) and seeking psychological security in “things” (belief/habit/objects) implies that truth is pushed further and further away and denied? 

 

Is belief for the mind that resists truth? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Jack River

[TheAvatarState]

1 hour ago, Roman Edouard said:

My question is: how can you be sure that any beliefs you hold are true if there is strong evidence that humans are naturally deluded creatures?

The trick is to study and observe your own delusions. I highly recommend Leo's 3-part series on Self-Deception. That really opened my eyes. Just the fact that you can understand your delusions and move past them means that Truth exists and that it lies within...

Also realize that everyone else suffers from the same delusions that you do. So with that knowledge, you'll start to see the world a lot more clearly when you understand your own.

[Joseph Maynor]

You’re not always deluded, that’s the first thing.  What you want to be able to do is remove delusions that are causing you unnecessary suffering in the moment.  There’s a way you can spot and then see through delusions as they happen.  You can hit the eject button to your mind and just watch the mind from a position of awareness.  One thing to realize is most of the time the mind is trying to help your Ego.  So, for example, take worrying and all the other ruminating you do.  That's your mind trying to help your Ego.  The mind's heart is in the right place, but it's reactions are often unduly emotional and distracting.  But you can see how the mind wants the best for your Ego.  So, what I do is I realize that and I let the mind do its thing.  Sometimes I even thank the mind for motivating me to get on something that I was not prioritizing right.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Anton Rogachevski]

5 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Roman Edouard If you know finite delusions, the only possibility is that you are infinite truth.

As beautiful and profound what you say is, how do you reach such a conclusion?

[Hellspeed]

Skip the mind, trust the Heart and Guts. 

[Joseph Maynor]

26 minutes ago, Hellspeed said:

Skip the mind, trust the Heart and Guts. 

You need mind, heart, intuition, and courage.

[ground]

7 hours ago, Roman Edouard said:

 My question is: how can you be sure that any beliefs you hold are true if there is strong evidence that humans are naturally deluded creatures?

Isn't 'evidence' only a belief, too?

[Nahm]

@Anton Rogachevski Are you aware?

[Anton Rogachevski]

Just now, Nahm said:

@Anton Rogachevski Are you aware?

It's funny you should use this exact question, because I find it doesn't dig deep enough for me. (Obviously it's my personal experience.)

Why? First of all, there are many basic assumptions built into sentence without noticing:

1. The assumption there's even someone here.

2. The answer to this is rigged. Because both yes and no are dualistic.

3. Even if I say yes, which is the trick, what's the noise "yes"? It's absolutely meaningless to me to say either yes or no.

4. What the heck is "awareness", how could I answer about something I have no idea of.

I can only say that it appears as if I was aware. But how does that change anything? There are just appearances. (this is "closer" to truth, but I wouldn't get here unless i questioned it all to death.) 

So what I say is: Maybe yes, I don't know.

Where's my prize?

[Nahm]

6 hours ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

As beautiful and profound what you say is, how do you reach such a conclusion?

 

2 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

It's funny you should use this exact question, because I find it doesn't dig deep enough for me. (Obviously it's my personal experience.)

Why? First of all, there are many basic assumptions built into sentence without noticing:

1. The assumption there's even someone here.

2. The answer to this is rigged. Because both yes and no are dualistic.

3. Even if I say yes, which is the trick, what's the noise "yes"? It's absolutely meaningless to me to say either yes or no.

4. What the heck is "awareness", how could I answer about something I have no idea of.

I can only say that it appears as if I was aware. But how does that change anything? There are just appearances. (this is "closer" to truth, but I wouldn't get here unless i questioned it all to death.) 

So what I say is: Maybe yes, I don't know.

Where's my prize?

Are you aware of this thought “assumption”, this thought “rigged”, this thought “dualistic thinking”, this thought “trick”, this thought “absolutely meaningless”, this thought “what the heck is awareness”, this thought “something I have no idea of”, this thought “it appears as if I was aware”, this thought “how does that change anything”, this thought “just appearances”, this thought “closer to the truth”, this thought “I wouldn’t get here unless I questioned it all to death”, this thought “maybe yes, I don’t know”, this thought “Anton Rogachevski”, and this thought “where’s my prize”?

 

 

[Anton Rogachevski]

@Nahm  I'm sorry this question is completely meaningless to me. There are thoughts, but I can't say if I'm aware, or someone is aware, or even to assume there is awareness at all.

Thoughts are just self aware. (that's already too much said) If you assume an "experiencer" who's "aware", you just put legs on a snake.

 

-------------------------

@Nahm " If you know finite delusions, the only possibility is that you are infinite truth."

--------------------

Until now I only saw finite things, how can I say I'm infinite?

Edited December 27, 2018 by Anton Rogachevski

[Shadowraix]

A lot of delusion comes from the XY problem: http://xyproblem.info/

Somebody may ask: "How do I make money?"

Thinking it will be a solution to their happiness but in actuality it won't truly make them happy. But they proposed their own solution instead of getting to the root of what they want. They want to  be happy and making money isn't a suitable solution to that.

We are always running away from the roots of our desires and covering it up with bullshit.

[Nahm]

@Anton Rogachevski Thoughts can come fast, but never to fast for realizing this. Awareness can not be “outsmarted”, try as you like. Awareness is aware of thoughts, awareness is not a thought.  ??. I’m not asking about “meaning”, or “someone”, or “if thoughts are self aware”, “experiencer(s)’, “who’s aware”, or “putting legs on a snake”. 

Are you aware of those thoughts too?

 

 

[Anton Rogachevski]

@Nahm

My dear friend, it may work for you because you are more advanced than me and can see it right away, but for my petty logical mind it's just not cutting it. I wish you well.

[Hellspeed]

6 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You need mind, heart, intuition, and courage.

Wake up Maynor  

[Anton Rogachevski]

22 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Awareness is aware of thoughts, awareness is not a thought.

How do you know thoughts aren't awareness? Are thoughts separate from awareness?

What is a thought?

What is awareness?

@SOUL Where's our old chimp friend Soul to come here and resolve this with his beautiful integrative thoughts? I miss you bro.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Anton Rogachevski

[Nahm]

@Anton Rogachevski If that thought is true for you, inquire. Godspeed my friend. Thank you. I wish you well also. 

[LastThursday]

14 hours ago, Roman Edouard said:

My question is: how can you be sure that any beliefs you hold are true if there is strong evidence that humans are naturally deluded creatures?

There's no guaranteed way to tell. But one sure way is if the belief changes over time. How can a belief which is true, change?