No self = no soul?

[Privet]

@Nahm Cheers!

[Jack Walter Leon]

@Leo Gura I already had some enlightenment experiences to be honest, although I don't like terms like 'enlightened' or 'woke 'which are only there to flatter the ego. After all this should not become a competition. But I already have an idea of what you mean. I'm reading a book by Timothy Leary ('The Psychedelic Experience'). Turn off your mind, relax and float downstream. Surrender to the void.

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Jack Walter Leon said:

I don't like terms like 'enlightened' or 'woke 'which are only there to flatter the ego.

These terms are not to flatter the ego. These terms refer to real stages of consciousness and insights.

[Jack Walter Leon]

@Leo Gura But Leo, who is enlightened or woke if there is no self?

[SoonHei]

@Jack Walter Leon there is no EGO - that's what is meant by no self.

Self/EGO is a fictional character. It has an illusion of existing.

 

There is only the REAL SELF / Consciousness / GOD / Absolute - so it can be said, that REAL SELF / Consciousness / GOD / Absolute is who 'becomes' enlightened or wakes up to this truth.

YOU are REAL SELF / Consciousness / GOD / Absolute.

While living as and in the story of Jack Leon: Jack Leon will never awaken. YOU will awaken. This is because YOU are not Jack Leon - and yet YOU presently are (identified with) Jack Leon

to show a little one-to-one so it kinda makes sense of how this JACK LEON and YOU can be superimposed yet be different...

While living as and in the story of Forrest Gump: Forrest Gump will never awaken. TOM HANKS will awaken. This is because TOM HANKS is not Forrest Gump - and yet TOM HANKS presently is (playing the character of) Forrest Gump.

 

 

the character (ego/ Jack Leon) never wakes up. The moment the awakening occurs, the reality is what is revealed and that reality = Jack Leon is just an idea/fiction/seemingly real character.

 

also, in reality, all the characters are played by REAL SELF / Consciousness / GOD / Absolute.  and not Tom Hanks of course

 

so to kinda bring it a step closer...

 

It's like for an author who writes a novel, it can be said that the entire world of that novel is created in the author's head and each character is the author in a way (an extension of the author) 

that's how reality is. all is a creation of REAL SELF / Consciousness / GOD / Absolute ' infinite mind . and we (individual egos) are living inside of that MIND as 1 out of the infinitely many characters 

Edited December 29, 2018 by SoonHei

[Nahm]

@SoonHei ??♥️

[SoonHei]

@Nahm @Nahm i see Nahm seal of approval

Thanks. Blessings. 

 

Pardon for this egoic response

 

[Jack Walter Leon]

19 hours ago, SoonHei said:

@Jack Walter Leon there is no EGO - that's what is meant by no self.

Self/EGO is a fictional character. It has an illusion of existing.

 

There is only the REAL SELF / Consciousness / GOD / Absolute - so it can be said, that REAL SELF / Consciousness / GOD / Absolute is who 'becomes' enlightened or wakes up to this truth.

YOU are REAL SELF / Consciousness / GOD / Absolute.

While living as and in the story of Jack Leon: Jack Leon will never awaken. YOU will awaken. This is because YOU are not Jack Leon - and yet YOU presently are (identified with) Jack Leon

to show a little one-to-one so it kinda makes sense of how this JACK LEON and YOU can be superimposed yet be different...

While living as and in the story of Forrest Gump: Forrest Gump will never awaken. TOM HANKS will awaken. This is because TOM HANKS is not Forrest Gump - and yet TOM HANKS presently is (playing the character of) Forrest Gump.

 

 

the character (ego/ Jack Leon) never wakes up. The moment the awakening occurs, the reality is what is revealed and that reality = Jack Leon is just an idea/fiction/seemingly real character.

 

also, in reality, all the characters are played by REAL SELF / Consciousness / GOD / Absolute.  and not Tom Hanks of course

 

so to kinda bring it a step closer...

 

It's like for an author who writes a novel, it can be said that the entire world of that novel is created in the author's head and each character is the author in a way (an extension of the author) 

that's how reality is. all is a creation of REAL SELF / Consciousness / GOD / Absolute ' infinite mind . and we (individual egos) are living inside of that MIND as 1 out of the infinitely many characters 

Wow, you expressed that very profoundly. Thank you!

 So in a sense I am you and you are me, right? Just inhabiting different roles? And I have previously decided that we have this conversation at exactly this time when I was in my GOD state. Life really seems like a movie then and I am just the silent wittness.

I just do not know if the thought is good or bad in my case, probably depends on my state of consciousness. It would definitely be bad news for my ego if I was still too attached to it.  I had times when I had the exact same feeling like you described it and it was really deliberating, I felt awaken and finally free. It just happened one day, I didn't even meditate and didn't know anything of this stuff before. But it didn't last too long (only a few weeks) and I got caught up by my ego again. Since then I am trying to get back at this state of mind. 

Edited December 29, 2018 by Jack Walter Leon

[SoonHei]

@Jack Walter Leon @Nahm @Nahm 

I doesn't let me delete the tag for nahm in the post (using my phone, maybe some limitation there... Anyways)

Jack, yes it literally means You and I are the same. 100% the same. Just wearing a different mask.

Like the pages of a book. They all have different font/text on each page. But the blank white page it is on, are all the same. (All ONE. unlike a standard book, there is no separation when it comes to the pages of the book of Reality)

 

And that state you talk about which you had, and then it went away... That happens on it's own. I myself wasnt aware of any of this until i had a similar experience.

 

Also a note, "trying to get" that state of mind would bring it about. Also notice how that  means Jack Leon is the one searching for that state. When we have just talked about above that Jack can never find the truth. Only the Absolute can.

Also, trying implies there is someone making the effort but we already know, there is no Jack Leon.

 

Simply rest back as awareness. Be aware of the coming and going.

 

[Jack Walter Leon]

@SoonHei What I still wonder is, how do you deal with the suffering and the evil in the world when you know that everything is determined? Imagine someone kills your mother and you are enlightened, how do you deal with it? In the role you play, of course, you are sad and angry with the murderer, but secretly you know that you are actually the murderer, just in a different role. This is just one example of a few.

[SOUL]

People often interpret illusion to mean 'does not exist' yet it more accurately can mean 'not as appears'. So an illusion does exist... it's just not as it appears.

[SoonHei]

@Jack Walter Leon @Jack Walter Leon @Nahm @Nahm 

Jack, as SOUL said. The key is to realize the deeper meaning of illusion.

 

Now about the example you gave, where a person is enlightened and his mother is murdered.

For the enlightened person, there is no mother or a murder or a murderer... So there's that.

 

As for what the body/mind/emotions of that person, it will play out whatever is needed in the moment.

 

It's like living life from 2 different perspectives simultaneously.

 

Also, take an example of what some religions say when it comes to conveying the message that everyone is you...

Love thy neighbor - Christianity

Treat all Muslims / others as your brother / sisters.

 

Now sure. Common sense will note that you will be more loving and understanding of your family/siblings/someone you love... But we all know there is still anger, fights and issues 

 

So yes. Anger can arise, fights can happens.. even though the others are YOU or brother/sister/beloved.

 

 

 

[Nahm]

@Jack Walter Leon

4 hours ago, Jack Walter Leon said:

What I still wonder is, how do you deal with the suffering and the evil in the world when you know that everything is determined?

Shelf determinism for a bit, and look into potentiality, spontaneity. Appreciate both perspectives to loosen up the duality. 

4 hours ago, Jack Walter Leon said:

What I still wonder is, how do you deal with the suffering and the evil in the world when you know that everything is determined? Imagine someone kills your mother and you are enlightened, how do you deal with it? In the role you play, of course, you are sad and angry with the murderer, but secretly you know that you are actually the murderer, just in a different role. This is just one example of a few.

To hear one does not suffer, or there is no evil, or that the enlightened one has no mother, will not make sense through the lens of thinking. Someone who says such things would likely appear to you as thoughtless. Can you see this would be your idea of “thoughtless”, not what it is to be thoughtless. Nothing, is similar in the sense you have an idea of “nothing”, but that is an idea, it is not nothing. The self discovery of the actuality of these, or “going full circle”, is quite literally the adventure of a lifetime. The difficulty is that 99.99% of the population does not know of this adventure. That’s ok though. Only one needs to know, and you are the one. 

 

[abrakamowse]

On 12/29/2018 at 0:15 PM, Jack Walter Leon said:

@SoonHei What I still wonder is, how do you deal with the suffering and the evil in the world when you know that everything is determined? Imagine someone kills your mother and you are enlightened, how do you deal with it? In the role you play, of course, you are sad and angry with the murderer, but secretly you know that you are actually the murderer, just in a different role. This is just one example of a few.

Think in the example of Jesus. It makes more sense if you know he was talking from the POV of awareness when he was in the cross. And he said "forgive them father, because they don't know what they are doing". What causes suffering and evil is ignorance of what they really are.

They don't know what they are doing, that's why they wanted to kill Jesus. And Jesus forgives them because is not their fault, it's the lack of knowledge.

If you are enlightened you will feel the suffering and evil, you will be sad, etc... but you will know that this is happening because of ignorance, and you will see all that happening, from the perspective of awareness, with compassion and forgiveness. Because you will understand. Truth shall make you free.

I never understood how Jesus could forgive and love his enemies, until I understood non-duality.

Edited December 31, 2018 by abrakamowse