Outgrowing actualised.org

[Emerald]

18 hours ago, Aakash said:

Dear LEO

Firstly, i would like to say; i apologise, i should have posted all my comments in this correct section of your forum page. however, i would like to say that It has come to my attention that if the self enquiry route is understood, then has it come to the end where self actualised.org has reached it's limitations. For example, the practice requires me to experience awareness with wakeful eyes. Therefore there is no ideology that can bound the incommunicable from this point of view, besides guidance. henceforth, i was wondering if the map of guidance has reached its final pointing direction to the territory. 

Kind regards

Aakash (truth not TRUTH presently)

It could very well be that you're at a stage in the journey where listening to spiritual teachings becomes a distraction.

Or perhaps you've just gone out of resonance with Leo's teachings in particular, and there are other more appropriate teachers for you now. Not in the sense that you've outgrown Leo, as Leo's teachings may come back into resonance with you later. It's more like the path will lead you to the appropriate teacher for the time if teachings are still appropriate for where you're at.

It's important to listen to your intuition about what is most valuable for you to pursue on the path. And it's also important that this determination of resonance happens with the emotions/intuition and not the thinking mind. So, if this is the conclusion that you've come to, did you come to this conclusion from your rational mind and thinking about where you SHOULD be? Or does it comes from losing the sense of expansion you used to get from Leo's teachings/teachings in general?

I made a video that's generally about this phenomenon of going in and out of resonance with particular spiritual teachers or just teachings in general. 

If the teachings are like a map leading you to the place where 'x' marks the spot and you actually find yourself at the place where 'x' marks the spot, then referring back to the map is only a distraction at that point. The task switches them from finding the 'x' to actually digging. Refer to your intuition to know which stage you're at on the path.

You may also want to refer to "The Parable of the Raft" which is all about this insight. It's about how you need the raft to cross the river, but once you cross the river, then you should leave the raft because it is not necessary and emcumbers your growth at other stages on the path if you are unwilling to cast it aside when the situation calls for it.

 

[VioletFlame]

Expect it to last a lifetime. ?

And feel excited!

Edited December 25, 2018 by VioletFlame

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura you seem rather dogmatic about this 

maybe the techniques you found just aren’t the best. When you become a jack of all trades, you overlook some very powerful techniques. I went very deep with this technique and what I discovered is astonishing.

Fyi, I’ve tried all of the techniques that you have prescribed to us for several months each. I can see how it will take decades with those techniques.

The problem with meditation and self-inquiry is that it is very mechanical. Most of the time will not be spent focusing on the technique.

The Work is a non-mechanical technique. You must answer each of the questions right away. That’s why it’s so powerful.

[moon777light]

the work reminds of pyrrhonism

[Forestluv]

On 12/25/2018 at 5:47 AM, How to be wise said:

I disagree when you say that results come after several years. I’ve been doing The Work for a few months, and I am permanently aware that the present moment is all that exists. I have completely detached from the mind’s idea of past and future. I have also lost major amount of ‘control’ of this body. It now feels to me like this body is moving on its own.

Why do you insist that mastery takes a decades? With the way I’m going now, I’m sure to hit it in a few years.

 

Dunning-Kruger effect

[Zweistein]

19 hours ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura 

The Work is a non-mechanical technique. You must answer each of the questions right away. That’s why it’s so powerful.

I found The Work very powerful, too ( @Leo Gura maybe you can tell us why you don't discuss it much?)

@How to be wise  I have been doing The Work for several years now and it wasn't until this summer that I realized some drawbacks (actually, I realized them during my discussions  here in the forum).

For example, one can easily get a bit stuck in "turning it around" thoughts - so you think you can easily see other people's projections but one fails to see how arrogant one gets because you feel like you figured it all out. 

So, yes - you can easily work away through nasty thoughts/judgements/emotions that pull down your mood (especially when it comes to other people's behavior or situations) and you can get into a state where you rather watch the thoughts fly by, but with that you could also easily fall into the extreme that everything is perfect as it is, when sometimes it just isn't. Nowadays, I find reality somewhere in between - it's hard to describe, hope it makes sense.

[Shadowraix]

@How to be wise You may be some edge case, I have no idea but he says this because people get in way over their heads thinking they have it all figured out until they realize they didn't and it repeats all over again.

[Forestluv]

6 hours ago, Zweistein said:

For example, one can easily get a bit stuck in "turning it around" thoughts - so you think you can easily see other people's projections but one fails to see how arrogant one gets because you feel like you figured it all out. 

This is such a key point. . . 

It’s easy to get lulled into a sense of “I’ve pretty much got it figured out”. I often remind myself I know an infinitesimal amount in the big picture. Less than one quadrillionth of one quadrillionth. Yet, the mind can subconsciously assume that infinitesimal amount is pretty much it. Many minds can be aware of this happening in others, yet lack awareness  of it happening within their own mind. 

In the Ox analogy, it maight be like catching a look at the tail and assuming that’s pretty much it. With this assumption, the mind may argue against others that are trying to describe other aspects of the Ox.

[How to be wise]

2 hours ago, Zweistein said:

For example, one can easily get a bit stuck in "turning it around" thoughts - so you think you can easily see other people's projections but one fails to see how arrogant one gets because you feel like you figured it all out. 

What do you mean by this?

 

2 hours ago, Zweistein said:

but with that you could also easily fall into the extreme that everything is perfect as it is, when sometimes it just isn't. 

It always is. The Work has clearly shown me that. Why are you afraid to open yourself up to this?

[Zweistein]

@How to be wise Hmm, how do I explain this better without sounding arrogant? ? Let me try... but I apologize in advance, if it does sound arrogant after all.

After asking the 4 questions, you turn your original thought (e.g. "Leo, you seem rather dogmatic") around into e.g. "I seem rather dogmatic" or "Leo does not seem dogmatic at all" and find evidence why that would also be true, right?

So, once The Work concept is "grained into" your monkeymind, you don't even need to ask the 4 questions, but simply take any statement made by whoever and turn it around and I could, for example, come to the conclusion that your opinion sounds rather dogmatic, right? ? So, you can end up reading all sorts of posts here and keep judging and judging .... until you finally observe that that's what you are doing. ? At least that's how I observed it in my development. (and here we go again, lol ?)

 

1 hour ago, How to be wise said:

It always is. The Work has clearly shown me that. Why are you afraid to open yourself up to this?

Reality is perfect - does this statement have to be true to be at peace with the present moment?

Edited December 26, 2018 by Zweistein

[Truth Addict]

@How to be wise

You don't know what you're talking about.

There's a reason why it's called 'mastery'.

You don't develop mastery over the course of months or even years, a few decades of grinding work, sweat and tears, are required to achieve mastery.

Does it make sense that I could win the formula 1 after a couple of years of driving?

Edited December 26, 2018 by Truth Addict

[How to be wise]

24 minutes ago, Zweistein said:

come to the conclusion that your opinion sounds rather dogmatic, right? ? So, you can end up reading all sorts of posts here and keep judging and judging .... until you finally observe that that's what you are doing. ? ?

The original statement you write is “He did this to me.” The three turnarounds are “I did this to me”, “I did this to him” and “He did not do this to me.” The Work is never about judging others, but seeing how they are never the cause of your problems; you yourself are.

Btw, the turnarounds are not absolute. They are very useful for ordinary people stuck in unconsciousness, but once you get highly developed, you can discard even them. You’ll know when that time comes.

[Zweistein]

@How to be wise Ok, so maybe we can agree that The Work is helpful, if one is actually stuck in typical "victim thinking", which is basically mostly due to the fact that one actually is judging others to start with. So then, The Work helps to get out of this victim thinking, right? And yes, it helps to take full responsibility for your thoughts and actions. I totally agree. And I also totally agree that you get to a point where you can discard the turnarounds or at least not take them so seriously. But I'm not sure if I communicated my line of thoughts well enough so you understood what I was trying to say... 

 

[Zweistein]

@How to be wise

P.S. what I don't agree with is how you need to write your original statement. 

Would you mind trying The Work with your sentence "Leo, you seem rather dogmatic about this"?

Is that true? Is that really true? How does it make you feel if you believe this thought?

Sorry for putting you on the spot - I can't help it ? ahhhhh

Edited December 26, 2018 by Zweistein

[Forestluv]

On 12/25/2018 at 2:21 PM, How to be wise said:

Fyi, I’ve tried all of the techniques that you have prescribed to us for several months each. I can see how it will take decades with those techniques.

It’s quite impressive that you’ve done all the techniques Leo has prescribed for several months each.

 What was your several months of psychedelic use like?

[Zweistein]

5 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

This is such a key point. . . 

It’s easy to get lulled into a sense of “I’ve pretty much got it figured out”. I often remind myself I know an infinitesimal amount in the big picture. Less than one quadrillionth of one quadrillionth. Yet, the mind can subconsciously assume that infinitesimal amount is pretty much it. Many minds can be aware of this happening in others, yet lack awareness  of it happening within their own mind. 

In the Ox analogy, it maight be like catching a look at the tail and assuming that’s pretty much it. Eith this assumption, the mind may argue against others that are trying to describe other aspects of the Ox.

? Yep, and then one realizes that the Ox is much much bigger than previously thought...