Conflict between Enlightenment and Life Purpose

[Speedscarlet]

@Leo Gura Of course your life will change once you realise no-control. Prior to the realisation, you are acting out of the illusion of control. After you realise the illusion, you give up on it.

Can I ask you a question. Why did you create Actualized.org? Why do you create videos everyday?

[Key Elements]

Tell you something here since this is a good topic. You know how you say that life is a flow. Well, the truth is a free falling flow. That's part of it. You do flow with it. It's just that, are you going to flow with life? Same applies to life itself. Are you going to discover what needs to be done and flow along with your aligned talents, interests, and abilities? When you do this, others see you as a role model through your actions and they may also do the same. It causes a ripple effect. 

 

[How to be wise]

1 hour ago, Key Elements said:

Are you going to discover what needs to be done and flow along with your aligned talents, interests, and abilities?

That is exactly the illusion. There is nothing that needs to be done. Reality is perfect right now! Literally! This isn’t some neo-advaita bullshit, this is real.

As for interests, there is no such thing. Any interest you have is egoic. Why would you have interest in one thing but not the other? Everything is equal to the clear mind. 

As for talents and abilities, these could be learned and mastered in most cases. Unless you are only willing to use whatever talent you already have. 

Here is the question: If there is nothing to be done, why will you follow your life purpose? Please answer this question.

 

[Zweistein]

1 hour ago, How to be wise said:

Here is the question: If there is nothing to be done, why will you follow your life purpose? Please answer this question.

 

There is nothing to be done - is that really true? 

 

[Key Elements]

22 hours ago, How to be wise said:

 

Here is the question: If there is nothing to be done, why will you follow your life purpose? Please answer this question.

 

No one is asking you to do anything. It's your choice. If you want to label doing something as ego, that's your choice too. Labeling itself is egoic:

See?

What's not egoic is truth (enlightenment). What is truth? Peace, flow, detachment...These are aspects of it, yes. You will experience these if you actually experience truth, yes. Does life itself align with it? Yes, of course. The big question is: is your "ego" aligned with it? That's your choice. Truth means the end of suffering. Are you going to align your life purpose with truth, or go the opposite direction? You have choice. Since the world that we live in is an illusion, it doesn't mean that it's not aligned with truth. It literally came from truth -- no distance. 

[Nahm]

Knowing nothing needs to be done, you can create, realize and live your life purpose.

Spend a week literally not doing anything you want. If you do it, that will be something you wanted to do. It’s inescapable. 

Is that really true?

Do you want it to be true?

[Key Elements]

Wait...

Here's another way of putting it. Do you define and label doing something as egoic/illusion or truth? Because the definition could go either way. Depends on you.

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, Key Elements said:

Do you define and label doing something as egoic/illusion or truth? Because the definition could go either way.

That’s a great question! ♥️ ? 

[Key Elements]

13 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

That’s a great question! ♥️ ? 

Thanks. I noticed something else in this thread. Ego has to be defined better. Ego is not something "right" or "wrong." It's not "good" or "bad." It's something that is quite capable of not aligning with truth.

[non_nothing]

On 2018-12-24 at 10:36 PM, How to be wise said:

So now you ask: Enlightened teachers are out there changing the world. I can see them.

Yes, you are right. Many enlightened teachers have written books and do workshops. But how they arrived there is very different to what you imagine. 

I agree on that one

In fact when they got enlightened, they don't rush to teach this to other people as we see their final version of them. For example Sri.Mooji after he is enlightened, he lived on street for almost 10 years on England, selling scents . Meanwhile the people already started following him naturally. After that he opened a tea shop and his followers grown. Then to a point where he kind of pushed towards by life to get where he is at now

[oleg]

Life purpose? there is classic trap provided by mind for eons and all discussions over a  subject may lead nowhere or right to the target...now here .The option always was in plain sight but people ignorantly and steady stubbornly chooses the first one ....

Is there evidence that the ultimate answer to rethorical question "what is the meaning of Life" had been found? I guess not yet...Then we put together two meanings of the term Life and term Purpose.. Yet ..the meaning of Life itself is not really known...and the whole alliance of two meanings cannot be resolved in terms of unity or oneness(?)....unless...life cannot "have" a meaning in literal sense...but Life is a meaning  itself..also in literal sense..Mean One and inseparable.Term "have" suggests presence of two units which in alliance would be called dual polarities,no? One "have" another...Essentially polarities creating ever going tension between them unable to become One as we are witnessing it in here obediently suffering  agree/disagree game in which solution cannot be found as long as duality exists in our perceptions.  Same applies to LIFE while  meaning to itself. and to "Purpose" meaning of which strictly aligned to all embracing Life . So it might happen to be That Life IS a Purpose to itself as well , speaking of duality transcendance ..May be term "have" is a vice, a disease in which humanity engulfed for centuries.. But , surely, it points out to certain direction of a search..

ALSO IT DIRECTLY SUGGESTS THAT I "Have" aren't  I am... I am that I am is a formula which embracing an enormous multitude of polarities and those actually producing energy, life force which serves in support of its carrier..In a current observations it seems to be an opposite. Carrier serving enormous multitude of polarities to which he provided multitude of names being not of himself but something else ..I have/haven't, I was/wasn't, I will/won't , I do or don't...many names to one human instead of I Am that I Am. Enlightenment constitutes all inclucive Awarness and it means also includes a meaning of written above and much more in nameless uconditional ..

It is not a requirement to rush to educate/help people while become enlightened  for a requirement is a condition itself and Enlightenment is a representation of  unconditionality . Enlightment  also is an ability to affect and dissolve any condition in its presence by definition ..In a presence of unconditionality conditions cease to exist..absorbed rather than destroyed..For witnesses it appears on  temporary basis as an experience and evidence and eventually required recognition of a sense of unconditional.It needs to be done in retrospective... looking back in time to akcnowledge and recognize experience of timeless moment in which Enlightement exist..Time is a condition in which most of people inevitably dwell in..The moments of Enlightenment is not unknown phenomena to everyone..it provides deep inspiration in certain creativity..Sense of time is fading away while in that Blessed moment. But it is only a glimpses pointers direction where to look .Yet actual particular happening mostly cannot be squeezed into linear logic and remains unexplainable but always desairable phenomena to experiencer . But explanation is awfully limited  being in state of limitations. It is vicious circle..Needs to be out...So called meditations provide that if applied appropriately. Enlightement exist in timeless state..Enlightened One aware of it..And unaware one is not and can't be. Timeless state as well as Enlightened state as One is very experientional and cannot be translated into linear perception...

Edited December 27, 2018 by oleg
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[Key Elements]

Folks, first find out:

1. What is enlightenment (truth)?

2. What is ego?

And then say it.  

Ppl generally disagree because they don't know what is enlightenment and what is ego. Both of their meanings are too profound to put into words.

[fewrocker]

Great topic and discussion! I fell into this trap, but now I can see it. This can be one of the most dangerous traps of the spiritual path.

 

Inactivity is not enlightenment. Spirituality as an excuse to become lazy might be worse than activity without presence, because if you know spirituality at least you know that you're doing the wrong thing. Activity and consciousness go hand in hand. Reality is already perfect. But the consequence is not that you should do nothing. But that your actions should flow with the perfection. Unenlightened action will go against the perfect flow

 

An amazing text that talks a lot about that is the Bhagavad Gita. Check that out, especially the third conversation:

http://bhagavadgita.swami-center.org/karma-yoga.shtml

This is a 5,000+ year old text with so many modern concepts being discussed. It is truly wonderful

[Nahm]

@fewrocker Enjoyed that read very much. Thanks! Here’s a ‘piggy back’...

http://m.encyclopedia-of-religion.org/indriya.html

http://m.encyclopedia-of-religion.org/chakra.html

http://m.encyclopedia-of-religion.org/meridian.html

[WelcometoReality]

@How to be wise Yes you don't know what's going to happen after enlightenment do you.. But you won't care which way life goes afterwards. You only care before.. And what is it that cares about this? 

[Leo Gura]

On 12/26/2018 at 0:33 PM, How to be wise said:

If there is nothing to be done, why will you follow your life purpose? Please answer this question.

Lol

Precisely because you want to.

Stop holding life purpose as something that NEEDS to be done. It's not about need, it's about desire to play a game.

There's no need for Mario run across the screen and avoid turtle shells. But if you WANT, it can be a fun game. No one is forcing you to play Mario. If you would rather sit in your mother's basement and stare at the wall, go right ahead.

If you don't want to do anything cool with your life, fine. Then be lame.

[How to be wise]

On 26/12/2018 at 11:59 PM, Key Elements said:

Wait...

Here's another way of putting it. Do you define and label doing something as egoic/illusion or truth? Because the definition could go either way. Depends on you.

That’s exactly what I’m saying. ‘Doership’ is an illusion. With enlightenment, that illusion will be realised.

I’m not saying that you should sit in your couch and wait till you die. I’m saying, leave all doership to your integrity. There is a natural force deep within you that can live your life for you. 

For example, I’m sitting in my couch. A thought appears ‘Brush your teeth’. Then, your body moves effortlessly by itself to the bathroom and brushes its teeth. It’s called effortless action. 

The heart is very intelligent. If you need to pay your bills, it will move you to get a job. There’s nothing that “you” need to do. In fact, “you” need to die first.

Notice that for your integrity to awaken, “you” must be doing nothing. If you’re driving yourself to do things, how can you live from the heart.

[Key Elements]

6 hours ago, How to be wise said:

That’s exactly what I’m saying. ‘Doership’ is an illusion. With enlightenment, that illusion will be realised.

I’m not saying that you should sit in your couch and wait till you die. I’m saying, leave all doership to your integrity. There is a natural force deep within you that can live your life for you. 

For example, I’m sitting in my couch. A thought appears ‘Brush your teeth’. Then, your body moves effortlessly by itself to the bathroom and brushes its teeth. It’s called effortless action. 

The heart is very intelligent. If you need to pay your bills, it will move you to get a job. There’s nothing that “you” need to do. In fact, “you” need to die first.

Notice that for your integrity to awaken, “you” must be doing nothing. If you’re driving yourself to do things, how can you live from the heart.

Yes, exactly! I like what you said there. You're talking about the natural deep force. I call it flow. This is definitely part of enlightenment (truth). Because in the real thing (truth), there is a flow. The ego (our human embodiment), upon initial thought, likes to think of this as a massive, grandiose, powerful, infinite light that flows back into the human body (ego) from the nothingness / everythingness, but in reality (truth), it's just a transformation from the nothingness from the truth's "perspective." No distance at all. No suffering when this happens. Only peace and love as a result.

Anyway, we're blessed with different talents, interests, and abilities because of the flow -- go with the flow to create less suffering and peace in our world in our own ways as individuals. Our thoughts are flowing in coming from the nothingness telling us about this. Just let your unwanted thoughts flow away and be present since this creates suffering.

This monk is practicing the effortless action. I like to call it meditative flow:

 

[How to be wise]

2 hours ago, Key Elements said:

Anyway, we're blessed with different talents, interests, and abilities because of the flow 

Trying to develop your skills, interest and abilities is already moving away from integrity. There are no special interests and abilities for you. That is created by the mind. Trust that your integrity will take care of it.

To the heart, all fields are equally interesting. They don’t exist!

[Jack River]

I’m personally not goal oriented. Since a few months ago I have realized that I have continually acted from “my” own ideas/concepts/theory’s(thought) with regards to action in life. 

By doing this all my actions and non actions in life are a result of that. 

To act or not act due to these past conclusions (my own personal past judgments/bais-prejudice) is to act dualisticlly, and therefore not act wholly. To act in accordance to the past is to be caught in the web of contradiction/fear. 

What happens when there is action that doesn’t have its root in the past? 

Isn't that to be integrated, undivided, non fragmented? 

This can be assured, when one lives whole action is instantaneous(now). There will be no “well there is no self so I don’t need to have a life purpose or I do”. That is acted on a past conclusion(concept-idea). 

If there is an actualized ending of time(self/fear) then there is no choice to act or not act, but there will be just action of itself. 

Total and holistic Action doesn’t choose. 

For me I’m not concerned with living a purposeful life or non-purposeful life, but one of total and complete undivided action. 

Wish me luck dudes?

 

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by Jack River