How to have a meaningful conversation with an incessantly distracted partner?

[GabrielWallace]

Hey - thanks for taking the time to read this on Christmas Eve. 

I've been in a relationship with a girl for almost six years now. We've lived together for more than five years. It's been a rough year and finances are not what I would call stable right now, since I've started making money online and it fluctuates quite a bit. We've had a disagreement about her basically giving me a surprise bill for her online shopping this Christmas.

That's just a little background to give you some necessary context, but the issue I need advice on is not on the disagreement itself, so I don't feel it's important to go into other details. What I was trying my best to do to solve the problem was to have a conversation about why this has upset me, what her expectations were, the situation we're in, and most of all try to really become mutually aligned with our goals and what we are working towards in the future and what it will take to get there.

I'm very willing to compromise. I love her and I am committed to her. But we both need to understand what we both are trying to do with our lives.

But it's incredibly difficult to have this conversation at any time of the day on any day. It's not the first time I have tried to sit down and have a real conversation where we discuss what we want in life, what it's going to take, and really become aligned. And it never happens because every time I try to do this she just watches YouTube or her eyes are glued to her phone.

She does respond to what I'm saying occasionally, but usually only with the most rudimentary of comments while still watching makeup videos or talking to people on WeChat (China's WhatsApp). And that's when I start getting frustrated. I start repeating things over and over again, because I feel she's not listening. And then it just becomes a cycle where she just says "I heard you say this many times" and I say "But you haven't responded, and I don't know whether you understand what I'm saying."

Through this process, I get more and more frustrated and it turns into me raising my voice and her not responding.

My question is: How can I have a real conversation that leads to a true mutual understanding of each other's motivations, when she's always using distractions to avoid real conversations? It's not about me wanting her to agree with me, it's really about wanting to see if we're aligned and whether we have aspirations that will support each other in the future. Whenever I say this to her, she always says she just doesn't have time. It's true that she hasn't had a day off in about two months, and I can certainly sympathize with that, but she's always got time to have an exchange about a cute cat video, just never about anything that's really important. And this has been a situation for years that has lead to many problems that I would very much like to avoid in the future.

If anyone has any insights about how to engage in a meaningful conversation with someone who is incessantly distracted (or is using distractions to avoid the conversation) then I'd very much appreciate it. 

[Jeff Zhang]

@GabrielWallace 

I guess your gf is Chinese.

Haven't you both have a plan to get married someday? Have she taken you to meet her family members, which is a important sign of how important you are for her.

“Whenever I say this to her, she always says she just doesn't have time.”

It's strange, I think. Not a healthy relationship like this.

[purerogue]

Problem probably is that she has not had day off for 2 months as you said, she just want to come home and relax  and all this talk is just frustrating her putting her in position to deal with more problems then she wants to handle right now, I think she is already doing great on not snapping because you push her into conversation.

She needs some time off, maybe this Christmas , or few days before new year she has free time to have enough relaxation, get some light drinks, some music in background  to loosen up to conversation.

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by purerogue

[Odysseus]

For me these conversations were always hard to initiate because I didn't want to make myself vulnerable by expressing the importance to talk. But also I felt the urge to talk in the first place because I wanted her to change instead of myself, which is a problem. 

So always check your motives, express your intentions honestly and like @purerogue said, respect her current circumstances.

Merry x-mas 

[GabrielWallace]

Thanks to responders 

@purerogue Yes, you're right that it's not a good idea to bring it up when she's been working so hard. But the issue that once again stirred the many questions I have about our future was the fact that she spent so much money and then told me that I owed it to her for Christmas. I felt that just handing over the money without explaining that this wasn't something I was happy about would be a terrible solution. Yes I was pushing the conversation, but there was good enough reason to do so. Her birthday is January 8th and I cannot afford for her to give me another bill like that due to me not making that clear to her. She won't get a day off until Chinese New Year, which is about six weeks away.

And despite the fact that she's been working so hard for the last couple of months, this isn't something I've only been trying to do for a short period of time. It's literally been years that this problem has persisted. We've been together almost six years and I can count the 'serious conversations' we've had on one hand ('serious conversations' from my masculine dominant brain of finding solutions, haha - I do recognize that we've had countless 'important' conversations from a feminine perspective ).

I will take the advice and wait again until Chinese New Year to try again to have a dialogue where we get really clear on each other's motivations for what we are really trying to do and get in alignment. I have around 100 pages of very detailed future plans now for the next five years, and I'd love for her to tell me whether or not she agrees with all these plans. I'd have loved to make them with her, but like I said she avoids big discussions like that - and I value purpose and clarity. If we're not in alignment, then we have to sort that out. But I can't know if we never talk about motivations or goals.

@Jeff Zhang Yes, she is Chinese and I have been friends with her family for years - they call me 'Xiao lao wai'  ... There's no question about the fact that she wants to stay with me for the rest of our lives - that much she has said. But it's the path we're on together that I want to clarify.

@Odysseus

Merry Christmas 

[Nick5050]

Focus on your goals bro no need to have the goals alligned. Trust me you don't want to have same goals.  Just respect each other and and if you want to make a change in your life. Just say it to her and hopefully she will respect it and help you. But there is no need to have this big conversation about your next 5 years plans and where she has to allign or agree with you upon

 

[GabrielWallace]

Maybe I should clarify, when I talk about becoming aligned with our goals, I don't mean having identical goals.

But at the same time I don't separate my goals from my life with her - I can't just ignore the fact that I have a Chinese girlfriend currently living in Shanghai who wants to live in Los Angeles.

When I speak of alignment I am talking about whether or not we would be mutually supporting one another in what we both want for the future, as well as where we're going to live and the kind of money I need to be making in order to support that lifestyle. She has dreams of living in Los Angeles, but that requires her to get a visa or green card, which takes a lot of work as well as marriage. And right now I can't afford to live in Los Angeles. She needs to understand that reality, but also understand my plan for getting us there, which requires me to invest in my business enough to get the necessary money coming in regularly. If she doesn't get what I'm trying to do then she'll just keep billing me for gifts she buys herself online and we'll never get there. That's where alignment must come into the picture.

Perhaps it sounded like I made lots of plans just for myself and I wanted her to agree to them, but that's not what I mean at all. Many of the plans account for moving to where she has said she wants to live. (Location isn't a priority for me in my life, but it is for her and I'm willing to accommodate for that.) Believe me, if my goals we're completely separate from her, then I wouldn't even be in China right now and I wouldn't be moving to Los Angeles ever - I'd just be traveling the world by myself off the money I make online. But that wouldn't work since we do love each other and we're committed to a life together, so we need a plan to get where we both want to be. And I've made one - I'd love to share it with her so we can adapt as necessary and get on the same page.

[GabrielWallace]

It occurs to me that there was maybe not enough context in my initial post, even though I was just looking for ways to pull her away from her internet addictions to engage in a real conversation.

Perhaps what you need to understand about this situation is that we have both wanted to leave China for more than four years. I've felt stuck here, but I've been willing to stay because I know that she really is stuck here and she doesn't have the luxury of just leaving like I can. The whole time I've been trying to figure out a way for us to get out. She has her heart set on Los Angeles but it seems to me that she's not very realistic about what we need to do in order to make that move.

My Chinese working visa was denied last year because of a change in the law (long story). I'm now on a tourist visa and I make visa runs every couple of months so I can stay with her for most of the year while making money online. But who knows when the Chinese government are going to stop me? What then?

I also pay 100% of the rent in our Shanghai apartment. I know she's been working relentlessly every day for months but she won't even tell me how much money she is making for all this work. So when she tells me that she bought lots of clothes online this month and gives me the price to pay her for Christmas, there's clearly a real lack of alignment or communication.

I've been trying to sit down with her and work out a real, solid plan for our future. I've been trying to do this since way before I was forced onto a tourist visa. It's essential that we're aligned otherwise what are we even doing? I know that neither of us wants to be here, but she won't talk about it for any length of time longer than 30 seconds without beginning to scroll through her phone and ignore me. Don't get me wrong - I have compassion for her stress about the situation and I understand her instinct to avoid talking about it - but it does neither of us any good.

I hope this clarifies the situation a little better and you understand that it's not just me coming up with my own personal goals and trying to force them on her.

I'm genuinely asking what I can do to engage her in a conversation where we can actually talk through the situation that she is trying to distract herself from facing, because I understand that it's stressful for her to talk about, but avoiding it is causing more problems.

[purerogue]

You have very good reason to have this conversation, just pick right time if you want for it to go well! 

It indeed seems that she does not understand whole complexity of situation, you can try to explain it when you will get to talk to her.

 

[Gabriel Antonio]

Interesting topic.

You can't force someone to have a meaningful conversation. And it seems as though she is not open to having one. 

It looks like you want to take the relationship to the next level, but you can't do that alone. Your partner must also do her part. 

I don't know, maybe it's time to break up and try to find someone who is at the same stage in life as you are. I know this is not easy and may not be the case, but I thought it might be useful to ponder. 

Wishing you success & happiness =) 

[Jeff Zhang]

@GabrielWallace @Odysseus @GabrielWallace  

Seems your gf doesn't understand very well your financial situation and takes you as an ATM, which puts you under pressure.

I am surprised that she doesn't tell you her wages, given that you both have been together for several years.

The understanding with each other about  both financial situation is needed, it plays an important role in the many aspects of a couple's life, from what should be bought, where to go,the budget plan,down to every detail of life.

Otherwise,in a long term, that would erode the relationship gradually.   Understanding with each other matters.

 In your case, maybe it's better you can write a private letter to her on Wechat/email, clarifying your situation and the plan to her.

Or maybe you can pick someday when both of you are free, go to some private quiet place outside (a change of scenery) that can help rid of any distraction like phone etc, where can help initiate a close quiet, intimate conversation. Maybe just going outdoor doing funny exercises,enjoy together,then open the  intimate conversation when it's timely .Sort of like that. 

About the visa issue. Maybe The following can help you a bit.

This year I had a Canadian friend like you in this situation. And I managed to help her to get a 3-year working visa without her doing any jobs in other companies.

She opened a new company, this is her own company(it's just a shell company for getting the working visa).

Then the bureau gave her 3 year working visa. I helped her going all the long process given she didn't understand Mandarin and the process involved. That cost 1-2 months, and cost only several hundred RMB fee. A bit of long haul.  But finally did it. I am not sure whether the policy in Shanghai is as same as here, maybe you can have a try.

Hope it can help you. Best blessing.

[Jeff Zhang]

BTW, Here is Huizhou City, 80km away from Shenzhen.

[Nick5050]

@GabrielWallace Oh now i understand. Seems a little bit to me like she's using you. Why do you have to pay for everything even though she is working so much? What things do you guys do together on regular day basis? I mean if she is all time working and when she gets home you can't even have a conversation. Maybe you could try to take her out to a bar or a restaurant. In those places you can talk about those things and then she will not have much chances to run away or distract herself with.

[Jeff Zhang]

@GabrielWallace I am also doing online business,  btw, what kind of online business you do

[eleveneleven]

On 12/24/2018 at 11:53 PM, GabrielWallace said:

I also pay 100% of the rent in our Shanghai apartment. I know she's been working relentlessly every day for months but she won't even tell me how much money she is making for all this work. So when she tells me that she bought lots of clothes online this month and gives me the price to pay her for Christmas, there's clearly a real lack of alignment or communication.

Dude.

I'm going to be real with you: this is more than just a lack of communication. There's probably a specific reason she doesn't want to talk, and that's likely because she's totally fine with the status quo--meaning, you making money, and her spending it. If something was important enough to her, she'd pay attention. She probably does have vague desires to live abroad, but she just wants you to magically figure it out for her.

Anyway, I know that Chinese culture is different from Western culture, so excuse me if I'm missing something here, but why the hell is she billing you for the things she buys? Even if it's Christmas, shouldn't that be a gift that you buy for her, that you choose? Otherwise, what are you besides a personal ATM for her?

Try an experiment. Stop paying for stuff and see how long she stays with you. Then you'll know where you stand. Better to find out now than years in the future when your business hits a rough spot and she leaves you for someone more "secure." A wife that doesn't help (or makes things worse) when things get rough is just dead weight on your journey.

Edited December 26, 2018 by eleveneleven