(Spiral Dynamics) What would a fully stage yellow society look like?

[Pharion]

Here is my idea about how it would work. From an early age people are given the tools and knowledge to find their authentic skills and interests / life purpose. Schooling and society promotes this by having a focus on people finding their passions and skills in life and developing them. Once someone is mature, they can contribute to society by pursuing this path that is special to them, and have access to mentors and tools to help them along the way. People pursue thier life purposes and give the fruits of it to society / those who are interested with minimal or no charge. Socially, there is no dominant culture enforced by government, just the basic principles of respect, equal treatment, consent, human rights etc. and people are free to participate in whatever social groups and traditions they feel a fit with. Drugs, sex work, niche opinions, BDSM, and any other consenual activity that does not harm others is completely legal. Schools and teachers are free to self organise and teach in the ways they see fit as long as it does not conflict with the above values. Companies, govt. and other organisations genrerally don't have a hierarchical structure. instead everyone works together and contributes their unique skills to the group. 

So yeah thats a basic outline of what I imagine, of course society is a very complex thing, but this maybe gives an idea of what i think. What do you guys imagine a stage yellow society would look like?

[Forestluv]

26 minutes ago, Pharion said:

Drugs, sex work, niche opinions, BDSM, and any other consenual activity that does not harm others is completely legal.

Who determines what is “harm”?

26 minutes ago, Pharion said:

Schools and teachers are free to self organise and teach in the ways they see fit as long as it does not conflict with the above values.

Are these values objective and universal? If not, what if a teacher disagreed with these subjective and relative values?

[Aakash]

A system where all individuals are able to feel emphathetic towards one another in understanding each others problems and then situation. I believe in simple terms, although by no means does it encapture the whole picture. It is about tailoring "the wheel of life" (check it out on google) towards every individual regardless of the way they think, value or believe in their ideology

merry christmas

[CreamCat]

5 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Are these values objective and universal? If not, what if a teacher disagreed with these subjective and relative values?

Self-organized schools will not be called schools. I think they will look exactly like online courses, mastermind groups, mentors, and various other things people already do. This means a Yellow society may not enforce compulsory public education.

Edited December 24, 2018 by CreamCat

[ValiantSalvatore]

I once imagined how a yellow society or a self-organizing society would look like after reading https://www.amazon.de/Anarchy-Utopia-English-Robert-Nozick-ebook/dp/B06XCF7RY1. Note the German version looks better https://www.amazon.de/Anarchismus-u-Proudhon-Kropotkin-Malatesta/dp/3939045004. It was quite interesting to see how their manifest of rules and guidelines in order to achieve a state where there is not a sovereign. In the book which is not a necessary recommendation, for people interested in political systems and how history worked around that, but it was rather complex to read I learned a lot of new words which was quite fun. 

Anyway, from what I remember and incase a self-organizing system can be integral without details because how it played out was definitely not integral and I do not read that much, so can't build a coherent and cohesive big picture of how it would look like but I imagined the following while reading the book.

A tiny bit of background during 1936 and 1939 there was the Spanish civil war against the monarchy there, and something about Catalonia. The people there were tired of being abused in some way and started unions or most likely similar syndicates or a form of a union called anarcho-syndicalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism. Where unions were created and the workers their received the same amount of payment in whatever form possible, food, automobiles, furniture etc, each worker in the union or company owned all the chairs..... for example, and these chairs could be taken from each member, the union selected their own candidate for ruling the union. 

Then a trade happened and let's just say for simplicities sake ( der Einfachheit halber), those blue-collar workers took over and since they organized themselves brilliantly, they were able to overthrow parts of the country and had a self-governing system without any money. They even were able to trade with England in case my memory is correct here. WITHOUT MONEY! Soley with some sort of coupons or smth. similar

While reading I imagined since I was against money, during that time, that having an anarchy style system would be ideal, having small outposts for trading and calculating the requirements necessary for agriculture the industry and for instance also a pharmacy connecting the villages towards the suburbs to cosmopolitan cities through the outposts and also having outposts for instance in the manual labor market, where they could freely arrange and order the necessary workes to work on a project with the necessary expertise in that area. But, the company would need to have the philosophy / Einstellung to accept and the necessary means and backup plans to rearrange works to their new workplace, where do they sleep?  Would their needs be met if they were indoctrinated with new beliefs how would their genes/brain change or epigenetic occurrences take place, that would not disrupt this system, since this system which is more or less similar to the Spanish civil war failed, it's like in Switzerland having a direct democracy works, but people are on different levels of development, so I assume that the average development or a regression or progression / "revolutions" could occur. Which alters and alternates public opinion.

So, Anarcho-syndicalism which started in Switzerland as the first union in the 19th century or so, as this ideological movement, or value system. 

 

 

 

I also remember one story from a friend who studies political science how money received its value from a trade from an island they trade shells aka cultural goods (*big cough* would this happen on a yellow level ? without status coughs I could puke and regurgitate or is that just a feature and not a bug ) and they traded that somehow against money, so the culture itself gave and this is my own interpretation and notion of the story, shells a fictitious monetary value and the raw and rare material gold let's say received a value automatically, through its rarity. It was a story about how money and its value was created. I would need a lesson about healthy capitalism. 

 

 

 

So, a system which uses outposts in order to manage and organize different requirements and takes the necessary actions to achieve that, through the utilization of every class of people, did apparently not work, I can't yet imagine a society that is integral, besides this attempt. 

 

Each government would have a task which includes all their resources and global problems ( assuming the majority of adults are at the integral stage regardless of cognitive capacities and including etc, you know all that), similar to an anime that I liked called psycho-pass were brains ruled the society and a network of the smartest peoples brains were hooked up after their death, in one vast tower, inside on room, which steadily calculated the necessary outcomes, effects, procedures, resources etc and chooses the best action for society, some determining system. With on represent the president which was a robot who had access to this, so everything was ruled by the system and the system took care for the people and the people took care about their lives more or less which maintained the system then, and a small union can interact with this system in order to maintain balance. Assuming people have the capacity to be integral and work on all of the global problems, such as urbanization, housing, overfishing, engineering new systems for water transport, an architecture for housing problems, criminal systems, political organization, new human rights, overarching supranational socialist systems? ( healthy ones with all their regulations), fostering research for new energy fuels for cars, building necessary job opportunities through innovation of cross-creating new field and niches, for people to work on with art parks etc, to entertain people and give them some sort of expression in their youth, as an integral version of a coliseum with different shapes and forms, like an open metal dome which graffiti areas, sculpture displays etc, some critic or embracing of society or culture as a necessary means to reflect and evolve. Yet, I would like to see a more sophisticated version instead of this crude ideation of a system.

For this small idea already global citizenship would be necessary. 

Trade of workers and an agreement of some sort of payment. 

A global list on what is relevant to maintain and harmonize a better system and list tasks necessary to achieve that. For each country, for each level of development, creating a route of trading workers harmonizing a better transport system which, includes magnetism for instance or what crazy ideas are out there. Like some stuff, I saw from Elon Musk. Which could be great for young people without any perspectives. For example, working on projects in Dubai, were prototypes of underwater housing systems in safe areas were natural catastrophes are very low could work and some geologist, for example, working on finding out which are the safest places and mathematicians, working on correcting their calculations and whatever.

Also, that it is allowed for companies and individuals to break out of this system and have their own set of rules playing another game, for instance, a more capitalistic instead of a more scientific approach, but I am lacking ideas how to make something that sounds at least sensible out of this. For example, companies that maintain the new technological facade, billboards, robots, virtual reality, and a consumer level and creating more products and having an independent agency which controls this and a government system which controls this while a neutral system ... controllers this or some other procedure learning about systems theory would help. 

 

 

 

Anyone feels open enough to share an integral vision of a society which respects natural hierarchies, complexity, paradoxes, systems within systems and other nested and crazy ideas? I do not intend to share an ideology! I am solely interested in how people would build an integral/yellow world in order to understand myself better and the world. 

Also, some recommendations youtube videos or Wikipedia article/website etc. Would be ideal or a couple of pictures would be cool or art, to see how a yellow system would manifest itself as a structure/system in society?

I once talked to a person who had a doctor in deep learning with his own lab and an a.i related field/cs and said that some of this is already possible. He worked on creating some new hardware device to store data more efficiently.

 

Eh... and I know the difference between Anomnie and Anarchy, but if someone corrects me politely I would be very thankful! 

Edited December 24, 2018 by ValiantSalvatore

[TheAvatarState]

@Pharion school as we know it today would not exist in a yellow society. School would not be run by the government. That was such a travesty in our own society. 

At a young age, the most effective ways a child learned would be determined and ranked, whether it was visual, conceptual, hands on, etc. The child would learn about all the types of learning and why he learned a certain way better. While learning from then on would be more focused on their type, it would be mandatory to let the child experience all the types of learning, just not equally so. 

There would be an actual giant school building where all the kids from an area would go, and social time would be encouraged. Then each class would be tailored to a specific type of leaning and subject. It would be much closer to current day college, but much more creative and fun atmosphere. There would be a focus on self-discovery and life purpose from a young age. Meditation and yoga would be mandatory "classes." "School wouldn't last the whole day like it does now. It would be more like 5-6 hours a day, with play and creativity and collaboration. There would be an emphasis on self-education as well. Very little homework. No tests with A-F rating. 

I know this sounds idealistic from your current perspective, but in a yellow society, this shit would happen. 

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Pharion This sound with my understanding of yellow as something tenable. Society tends to do that depending on what country you live in, the two people that I know who are yellow first have "very high status", also they are somewhat non-conformist and still young, nobody is perfect, yet they are lone wolves, + one of my friends who I just meet luckily who is more of an artist. I am not very good at dealing with power structures so, excuse potential triggers. That I do not see and for not potentially encouraging people Yet, as an abstract idea without any details like I tried to describe above in a more cross-paradigmatic way, without much knowledge. It would include learning about practicing compassion especially with so much diversity at best as some creative form, like a marketing campaign for a non-profit organization, also cooking, relationships, yoga, and meditation, ethical marketing, also "ethical" computing stuff like that. Philosophy combined with religion. I even think the safe use of alcohol is okay. But, that is my conditioning. Yes, consents are great, yet people need IMO to understand that some are more competent than others, yet that ego is often hurt in the process of discovery and arguing not productive. I still struggle with this, some have it easier with that. Also, hubris and arrogance in the academy could stop, the students get along quite well, yet with a lot of pressure depending on the person, it is difficult to not become a bit more arrogant or depressed or resentful. I do have some strong opinions on this, but I won't mention this here. But, it's the old social status game learning that it is okay to lose or fail would be great instead of taking it as a beating, also better opportunities for an outlet, for smaller campuses with great content, but shit equipment. Equipment could be updated no idea on that there are already fields which combine different fields. For instance, they offer here sociology computer science "Sozioinformatik". On other forums they say that is is not that good, but a lot of people just laugh because they can't put it into a category. 

Yet, with all the craziness with diversity on the planet and gender rights, etc teaching about relationships and differences and sameness of people and spiral dynamics could help, I would not need to practice non-judgment / mindfulness and categorize people according to what they have said literally, but as a shitty analogy I have a larger container in which I can use the concepts that I have learned and filter it through that lens, oh that was a green use of language, oh he or she uses a green use of language or yellow even, with spouts of orange or blue. So, people could even use language constructively to help society deal with fragmentation and differences. This is just an idea. Hope this is somehow helpful. I still have a lot of issues. 

 

@TheAvatarState https://academics.uafs.edu/academic-success/visual-learning-strategies there are a lot of courses offered today about learning and on youtube and offered in college here in Europe too. I don't know how it is in the U.S. But solely working on projects and having access to material online and to the campus is quite cool but also makes people lonely, so people with money and a family have a clear advantage. Also, creative collaboration is just a horrible, one of our professors tries to teach this and we had mandatory seminars, teaching techniques about creative writing and such learning techniques etc. I am not sure if a school is able to make up of the lack of parenting that people receive, even at a yellow stage of a government. Some people liked it, but the seminars are too short and should be taught in classes concerning something with literacy. 

Access to sports facilities is okay, but I feel there is a lack of art, also many teachers lack social skills or rather coaching skills!, that should be mandatory starting from the 4th grade learning about health, cooking, political parties/ structures, positive psychology,  for instance, a class to have a constructive debate instead of winning and yelling, yet the problem since I assume is that it is similar in the U.S that it is a federal state, therefore the single states decide what is on the curriculum, which is more or less lucky than. Also, paying for education is absurd, I do have to pay back student loans and they changed some regulations ages ago to my benefit. Also, some courses about diversity could help and philosophy including religion, instead of listening to old ideas about God without some serious contrast, regardless of which religion is practiced. Meditation and yoga would be awesome. Since it would be a further incentive to choose this as a major for let's say integrative health or psychology in a teaching degree. But, what do I know? It is very difficult to work with people who have different opinions and ego backlashes in group work are hell. And disruptive. Learning how to deal with that would be great and not some process on how to deal with the mechanical process of handling some process, most people who played team sports, just find a group and work with the people there, video games are way too toxic since people are trying to outwit each other in competitive games, casual games are fun tough. Outside of school, I tried to write an approach above, I worked a bit and did some internships, I know that they offer classes here in Germany for further training outside of school. I don't know yet how a nonfuturistic approach would look like juxtaposing it to a more pragmatic approach. I just know a lot of people want to become famous in the U.S. So, no idea how their structure works. I just know that people don't pay for health care that the income tax is around 15-20% and there is not a tax about the church?

Especially learning about failure in group projects etc. some non-conformist professor, decided to not teach it and just gave people cues and observed the process, he had a lot of life experience and is 71 years old, the other professor is very polite, yet he knows nothing about psychology ( I assume a bit but more the academy stuff for friends? etc likely) , the former professor studied this and knew how to motivate people, while the other professor teaches Project management and just drills in the process. There are limits to this, so spiral dynamics and better facilities for the Professors, so they are motivated would be cool.

Edited December 24, 2018 by ValiantSalvatore

[Pharion]

@Serotoninluv What i mean to say is that they could teach whatever content they'd like, as long as the teaching itself didn't involve violating the laws of society. For any of this to work the majority of people of course have to be in stage yellow or above. Im not suggesting any of this would work in any other stage of society or for other people, so i'm assuming most people and teachers would be pretty open minded and not destructive. 

Also by harm I mean those things are often seen as morally harmful, where they actually can be healthy and acceptable if you take out the moral shaming and judgement. In the case of drugs, of course it's almost never a good idea to try heroine, but making it illegal just promotes a black market and criminal gangs, so it's still the better alternative. Ofc specifics could be changed but the overall idea is that we dont judge people for their lifestyles as long as they remain functional and don't hurt other people / beings / the environment. 

Edited December 25, 2018 by Pharion
adding information

[Pharion]

@CreamCat certainly i agree. our current model of education is the antithesis of stage yellow, although offering a mainstream education or courses for people to learn the basics would be fine of course. But the whole system of marks and degrees and attendance and exams; yeah that's gonna be left in stage orange i expect.

[Pharion]

11 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

 

Access to sports facilities is okay, but I feel there is a lack of art, also many teachers lack social skills or rather coaching skills!, that should be mandatory starting from the 4th grade learning about health, cooking, political parties/ structures, positive psychology,  for instance, a class to have a constructive debate instead of winning and yelling, yet the problem since I assume is that it is similar in the U.S that it is a federal state, therefore the single states decide what is on the curriculum, which is more or less lucky than. Also, paying for education is absurd, I do have to pay back student loans and they changed some regulations ages ago to my benefit. Also, some courses about diversity could help and philosophy including religion, instead of listening to old ideas about God without some serious contrast, regardless of which religion is practiced. Meditation and yoga would be awesome. Since it would be a further incentive to choose this as a major for let's say integrative health or psychology in a teaching degree. But, what do I know? It is very

What your describing almost sounds like tuquoise? But yes I agree. It's ridiculous that we spend 100s of hours learning math, and don't learn about health, psychology, meditation etc. until MAYBE in college or late high-school

[CreamCat]

I spent hundreds of hours on learning calculus and mathematics. But, I ended up using less than 1% of what I learned about math.

I use some basic geometry and basic calculations.

Compulsory public education itself acts like a huge distraction. Schools force us to procrastinate for many years.

Edited December 25, 2018 by CreamCat

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Pharion No, idea what turquoise is so far, experientially in a day to day life, no. This is just an idea of how they could evoke more enthusiasm and reduce the feelings of loneliness, I am not that educated enough to know about different forms of regulations etc, that could be provided to ensure a smoother time to graduate.

Also, a healthy sense of competition would be cool, our marketing prof divided "back runs" into teams, so academia could be seen a bit more like sports instead of an obligation to make a living because people then don't share information and build their tiny cliques, so a schools philosophy or some form of identification with the school / college would be interesting to see. It is not necessary IMO, but can be helpful for lazy people who need a structure that is my opinion. Enthusiastic or driven people can easily earn more, college and uni offer also a lot of internships and programmes that people otherwise would not know of, but a lot of students are lazy, so opportunities exist and students receive a lot of support, in case they are proactive. I have to admit that the choice of my college was not very well thought of and even though the content is quite good since it is partially the strength of the region + ratings, the equipment is not very good(the whole facility everyone complains, yet this is normal apparently?). Also, it is oriented towards being more practical, a lot of the time, they say that students did this and that and found a job/career. Still, many people just leave and want a comfortable life.

I agree with CreamCat, I don't know how it is when people want to do their phd programms etc. A college could be a good choice in case one wants to learn about something in a practical manner. Also, the experience itself is quite valuable. Meeting professors and a couple of creative and open-minded people is always nice. It can easily change one's life. But, so can an online video or courses