Why not 'evil' things?

[Quantum_fluctuations]

So, I intellectually understand that there is no free will and there is no individual 'self' anywhere. Its just an illusion having a separate self going through life.  Universe is just one process. 

So, there is no distinction of 'events' from universe's POV, like if one human kills another or rapes another its just a process. Although victims may fell various bad emotions due to different arrangement of atoms in their head. Still, rearrangement of atoms is just process which may produce negative feeling in the individual human. 

Inherently,  in this universe there is no 'good' and 'bad'. There is not even a separate 'thing' in universe that exists by itself. Because its all one.

If enlightened person realize this by experience then why don't they act 'evil' ? Why don't they go on killing or raping people? How do they decide what to do when everything is just equally good in this universe, whatever you do.

Since there is no duality they could do anything. 

And if non-duality is true, then how can an individual live in this universe? Because by definition an individual is supposed to have distinction between what is good and what is bad for him and then pursue something and avoids something.

If there is no 'good' and 'evil' since nonduality is true, then why don't enlightened individuals do 'evil' things (which actually are not so evil from Universe's perspective)?

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Quantum_fluctuations
..

[Hellspeed]

Once one awakens, fully, with Heart included, then is no such as Violence against humans nor living creatures, this is a law, the most beautiful law of enlightenment. 

Wanna do harm? You will not be able to harm another without harming yourself, period. 

[Fairy]

There's plenty of enlightened people who do evil things just for the sake of it.

[Zigzag Idiot]

 

@Hellspeed I agree, law of Karma

 

@Quantum_fluctuations I'll relate a bit of my path to what you said through an Ocke de Boer quote. I study Gurdjieff and esoteric Christianity like Ocke does. He's been doing it a lot longer than me.

Ocke: We arouse the intelligence of the Spiritual Witness through the practice of ‘I AM’. Through ‘I AM’ we can get access to the universal ‘I AM’. This will bring us a more stable presence and therefore an intuitive intelligence, which is called the intelligence of the Heart. This intelligence will teach us to live from Conscience – that is, to do the Will of the cosmos. Our cognitive intelligence is way to slow for this process.  

In Regards to separate self. 

I am not my body. I am not my thoughts, feelings or sensations. 

There is a false personality that dies after we awaken.

Rebirth is the Realization of the Pearl beyond Price. It is the personal essence of Being which has Individuality based on understanding. This understanding is connected to Conscience-- which is universal-- same everywhere 

Awakened Conscience is real Conscience

Culture indoctrinates acquired Conscience into people, which is different from culture to culture.

 

Conscience can be awakened with the law of three or ternary metaphysics's by adding a third force of neutrality to polarity consciousness.

Pain is felt even more but ones understanding is greater.

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Zigzag Idiot

[Zigzag Idiot]

I can equate Awakened Conscience with the Buddhists ideas of Karma and Dharma and vow of non violence.

[Shadowraix]

The further you develop yourself the more you can start digging up the root of your desires and really follow how you want to live.

As you raise your consciousness and have many realizations what you do to follow your desires will change as there has been radical recontextualizations.

So ultimately they don't do those 'evil' things because they don't desire to. That is really all there is to it. Even your sense of 'good' and 'bad' ultimately form out of desire. Its sort of a mask for it. Equates to 'I approve' or 'I disapprove' (non-cognitivism)

1 hour ago, Quantum_fluctuations said:

And if non-duality is true, then how can an individual live in this universe? Because by definition an individual is supposed to have distinction between what is good and what is bad for him and then pursue something and avoids something.

Imagine a painting. You can pinpoint all distinctive colors, images, and shapes, yet it is still one painting. Separation through distinction all comes in the way you perceive it. But that separation is illusory. Its only half the story.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Shadowraix

[Hellspeed]

1 hour ago, Fairy said:

There's plenty of enlightened people who do evil things just for the sake of it.

They are not enlightened  

[Joseph Maynor]

Evil is always relative to the point of view of one or more Egos.

[tsuki]

3 hours ago, Quantum_fluctuations said:

If enlightened person realize this by experience then why don't they act 'evil' ? Why don't they go on killing or raping people? How do they decide what to do when everything is just equally good in this universe, whatever you do.

Enlightenment is not about being free from the laws of causation, but about resolving conflicts that make you suffer.
If there is no free will, it is equally true for an enlightened person and an unenlightened one.

[Quantum_fluctuations]

@tsuki I didn't mean that they would have free will after enlightenment. 

I was saying that, even though we don't have free will we make choices (which actually are illusory) depending on our belief system.

But since on enlightenment one realizes nonduality of the world and there is no 'good' and 'evil' anymore than how do they decide what to do, since each thing is equally good. Either you hit your head at wall continuously or sit at one place continuously or go have sex with many men/women or go kill your nieghbour, they are all supposed to be equally good, because there is no duality. (They are all different arrangement of atoms in this universe caused by physical laws) SO, why don't they do 'evil' things ?

Because for normal people its social conditioning, fear of jail, morality etc, but enlightened person is beyond the thought based things.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Quantum_fluctuations

[Brittany]

I literally read about this yesterday in Adyashanti's "The End of your World" book. LOL

Here is a copy of the page from my book:

[tsuki]

6 hours ago, Quantum_fluctuations said:

But since on enlightenment one realizes nonduality of the world and there is no 'good' and 'evil' anymore than how do they decide what to do, since each thing is equally good.

Like I said - they don't decide and they have never been. Reality has a certain momentum to it and all of your actions in the past, now, and in the future are the expression of it. You never made a single choice and you will never make one.

To show you the first-person perspective of this experience: let me ask you a counter-question:
If reality is non-dual, which implies that good and evil are actually one, then why is there any reason to stop doing what you've already been doing?
Your insistence on the fact that people do good because they logically conclude that to do evil is worse is a delusion. People would have not been doing evil if they could. They can't help themselves to do what they are doing and good and evil are fluid categories of their experience. This does not change post-enlightenment. The only difference is that you are aware of it and this is the very nature of liberation (at least in my experience, which may be particular).

Edited December 23, 2018 by tsuki

[Leo Gura]

@Quantum_fluctuations Most "evil" acts are motivated by ignorance and egoic fear and craving. With enlightenment these are seen through so there is much less need to do evil.

good and evil are transcended into Good with a capital G. Without ego, everything becomes Good, not neutral as you might expect.

Good and evil are not really equal and opposite. In truth there is no such thing as evil, leaving only Good.

[Matt8800]

10 hours ago, Quantum_fluctuations said:

So, I intellectually understand that there is no free will and there is no individual 'self' anywhere. Its just an illusion having a separate self going through life.  Universe is just one process. 

So, there is no distinction of 'events' from universe's POV, like if one human kills another or rapes another its just a process. Although victims may fell various bad emotions due to different arrangement of atoms in their head. Still, rearrangement of atoms is just process which may produce negative feeling in the individual human. 

Inherently,  in this universe there is no 'good' and 'bad'. There is not even a separate 'thing' in universe that exists by itself. Because its all one.

If enlightened person realize this by experience then why don't they act 'evil' ? Why don't they go on killing or raping people? How do they decide what to do when everything is just equally good in this universe, whatever you do.

Since there is no duality they could do anything. 

And if non-duality is true, then how can an individual live in this universe? Because by definition an individual is supposed to have distinction between what is good and what is bad for him and then pursue something and avoids something.

If there is no 'good' and 'evil' since nonduality is true, then why don't enlightened individuals do 'evil' things (which actually are not so evil from Universe's perspective)?

 

In the universe, "things" have a "nature".

For example, stars, black holes, molecules, atoms, photons, sound, etc all behave in certain ways according to their nature. Furthermore, things behave differently as they evolve. Stars behave one way but once they are black holes, they behave another way.

Enlightened individuals behave they way they individually behave according to their nature simply because that is the way it is. Why does light travel at its relative velocity? Because that is just the way it is.

Nonduality is true. Duality is also true but at a different level. That is the paradox.

[Forestluv]

@Quantum_fluctuations You touch upon one of the strongest resistances of an ego. My first experiences of “ego death” had a horrifying component to it: harm anxiety. As the self lost control, the distnctions between good and evil began to collapse. The mind lost the ability to differentiate between kindness and harm. There was no difference between stabbing someone (including myself) and drinking a glass of water. Intense fear arose that anything could happen. From the perspective of an ego, the mind-body can no longer differentiate between good and evil - therefore, both good and evil would happen through my mind body. There was a belief that a sense of self is necessary to be aware of good and evil and to refrain the mind-body from doing harmful actions.

I’d say this dynamic of surrender has been the most challenging for my self. Surrendering that last bit of control and entering unkown, uncertainty, groundlessness. Yet in those no-self mind states, there hasn’t been motivation to cause harm. That energy just isn’t present. From a self-based “rational” viewpoint, I don’t know if that is a fundamental truth of egoless mind states, or if it’s a relative truth based on the evolutionary and social conditioning of my particular mind-body. 

Yet, surrendering and going beyond the good/evil framework opens up a whole new realm of exploration, ime.  

[Hellspeed]

Wanna know what is the most evil'ish? 

Going against own Breath/Heart, encouraging others to read more instead of Breath work and doing the very good things for the wrong reasons, plain ignorance. Faking that one has reached a certain level of being and spreading that with excitenment. In other words, no awakening, no harmony, even if someone is suffering and is a drag for others, they fit in the same scheme. Spreading the hard work without substance, nor being, etc. 

[Aakash]

There is no "self" to which the experiencer is attaching the word "evil" to the situation being thought of. There is no rape happening directly in front of them in my opinion. so such thoughts are not being thought about. The duality you are creating between what is evil and not evil is the very thought that you are attaching meaning to. they do not do it because they have no such desire to do it. 

merry christmas, i hope my opinion helped. it might not be right but i gave it my best go. 

[CreamCat]

14 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Quantum_fluctuations You touch upon one of the strongest resistances of an ego. My first experiences of “ego death” had a horrifying component to it: harm anxiety. As the self lost control, the distnctions between good and evil began to collapse. The mind lost the ability to differentiate between kindness and harm. There was no difference between stabbing someone (including myself) and drinking a glass of water. Intense fear arose that anything could happen. From the perspective of an ego, the mind-body can no longer differentiate between good and evil - therefore, both good and evil would happen through my mind body. There was a belief that a sense of self is necessary to be aware of good and evil and to refrain the mind-body from doing harmful actions.

I’d say this dynamic of surrender has been the most challenging for my self. Surrendering that last bit of control and entering unkown, uncertainty, groundlessness. Yet in those no-self mind states, there hasn’t been motivation to cause harm. That energy just isn’t present. From a self-based “rational” viewpoint, I don’t know if that is a fundamental truth of egoless mind states, or if it’s a relative truth based on the evolutionary and social conditioning of my particular mind-body. 

Yet, surrendering and going beyond the good/evil framework opens up a whole new realm of exploration, ime.  

I might need to tie my limbs when I take psychedelics. I don't want to accidentally stab myself during psychedelic trips.

Or, you might try to befriend serial killers during psychedelic trips.

Edited December 24, 2018 by CreamCat

[Quantum_fluctuations]

@Leo Gura  

Talking from individual's perspective there is something 'good' and something 'bad' for him and from society's  POV there are something 'good' and something 'bad'. But we can't say 'good' or 'bad' from universe's POV. If you are saying actually everything is 'Good' then how do enlightened individual don't end up doing 'bad' things from societie's POV which are included in 'Good'?

Edited January 11, 2019 by Quantum_fluctuations

[RichardY]