The three classes of seekers, by R. Maharishi

[Anton Rogachevski]

"Sri Ramana occasionally indicated that there were three classes of spiritual aspirants. The most advanced realise the Self as soon as they are told about its real nature. Those in the second class need to reflect on it for some time before Self-awareness becomes firmly established.

Those in the third category are less fortunate since they usually need many years of intensive spiritual practice to achieve the goal of Self-realisation."

What do you think? Is it possible that some people hear it once and get the big E? Seems unreasonable.

[Hellspeed]

Why should we take Ramana Maharshi as an authority? 

[Anton Rogachevski]

@Hellspeed

Please pay attention, no one told you to accept any authority, it was your own projection.

We can hear and contemplate ideas without automatically believing them. But if you judge and disqualify them prematurely you will lose precious contemplation time, and miss potentially deep insights.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Anton Rogachevski

[Hellspeed]

1 hour ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

@Hellspeed

Please pay attention, no one told you to accept any authority, it was your own projection.

We can hear and contemplate ideas without automatically believing them. But if you judge and disqualify them prematurely you will lose precious contemplation time, and miss potentially deep insights.

No need to pay attention. This is not a class, is an opinion or experience exposure. So, in my opinion the 3 statements of Maharashi are bs, reality is more complex. 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Hellspeed

[purerogue]

It is reasonable, just reasoning is not reasonable, that is like taking people and just dividing them in 3 groups without looking in reasons why each of them ended in that group.Anyway realization of self is nothing special, being wise is million times more important then seeing "self". 

[Anton Rogachevski]

@purerogue Some good points.

I think he might have referred to which stage on the spiral the seeker is.

[Shin]

1st have suffered deeply to the point they had to surrender directly.

2nd suffered a lot, but not as much.

3rd haven't suffered enough to consider this as a real opportunity, but like to identify as being spiritual.

[Anton Rogachevski]

@Shin Bingo!

[Aaron p]

2 hours ago, Hellspeed said:

No need to pay attention. This is not a class, is an opinion or experience exposure. So, in my opinion the 3 statements of Maharashi are bs, reality is more complex. 

LOL

[ajasatya]

@Aaron p as adyashanti said... "it is very easy to smell ego", right? 

[purerogue]

There is very good reason why some people say that children are closest to "TRUTH",  or correct approach to life, but problem is that without wisdom their natural being gets corrupted with time, you need wisdom for it to not get corrupted.

[Aaron p]

I'm sure there are people who get it easier than others, and I'm sure there is some way to quantify different categories of such people. But the idea of someone getting enlightened instantly is just...unfair ?

[Preetom]

5 minutes ago, Aaron p said:

I'm sure there are people who get it easier than others, and I'm sure there is some way to quantify different categories of such people. But the idea of someone getting enlightened instantly is just...unfair ?

This trend mostly prevailed in the hardcore monastic traditions of the past.

A student monk would train 20 years or more under the supervision of a guru; preparing and purifying his body-mind-intellect; refining things like detachment, openmindedness, courage, calmness etc without fantasizing and conceptualizing about some 'Ultimate Truth or Reality' hiding somewhere.

Then one day the guru would a give a powerful pointer like ''You are THAT'' or just go on with a private discourse to shift the attention of the student and very quickly his attention would lock on this realization. 

This is how Advaita Vedanta was developed and transmitted over the ages traditionally. If you read texts like Ashtavakra Gita or Bhagavad Gita, you can see how the guru 'transmits' this wisdom over to a prepared student in a very short time. That's why it is called Jnana Yoga or the yoga of wisdom. On lookers might say, the student got enlightened in 1 hour but they don't see the 20 years of brutal monastic training he underwent to stomach this self-realization.

[Preetom]

34 minutes ago, Aaron p said:

and I'm sure there is some way to quantify different categories of such people. 

Adi Shankara pointed to some methods to quantify someone's spiritual maturity.

The most vital one is the ability to discriminate between the real and unreal; between the changing and the changeless; between the contents and that which knows all contents...these are basically the same discrimination that one develops during witnessing/self-inquiry.

Many people just can't stop sucking on the contents of their thoughts and beliefs. They just haven't refined the intellect to make this necessary discrimination. Maybe they suffer few more decades and finally relaxes a bit on their ideas and beliefs; finally they open up some space between themselves and the contents of their lives and that is the beginning of spirituality. That is the role of suffering in spirituality. It makes people wanna voluntarily give up their miserable life and opinions and ideas.

Other important aspects are an intense desire for liberation or Truth. Also some qualities like detachment, openmindedness, calmness of mind, disciplined life etc that pretty much all traditions set as the general rules.

The more these qualities someone develops, the more ripe he/she is for Enlightenment as fast as possible.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Preetom

[winterknight]

8 hours ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

"Sri Ramana occasionally indicated that there were three classes of spiritual aspirants. The most advanced realise the Self as soon as they are told about its real nature. Those in the second class need to reflect on it for some time before Self-awareness becomes firmly established.

Those in the third category are less fortunate since they usually need many years of intensive spiritual practice to achieve the goal of Self-realisation."

What do you think? Is it possible that some people hear it once and get the big E? Seems unreasonable.

Of course it's possible... Ramana Maharshi was not even told anything before he had his 'enlightenment' experience at 16.

This is said to be the result of the seekers having made all their efforts in previous lifetimes.

Edited December 23, 2018 by winterknight

[Key Elements]

12 hours ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

"Sri Ramana occasionally indicated that there were three classes of spiritual aspirants. The most advanced realise the Self as soon as they are told about its real nature. Those in the second class need to reflect on it for some time before Self-awareness becomes firmly established.

Those in the third category are less fortunate since they usually need many years of intensive spiritual practice to achieve the goal of Self-realisation."

What do you think? Is it possible that some people hear it once and get the big E? Seems unreasonable.

I get what you're saying. Ramana is just saying it in his own words and his own way.

Some ppl get it right away because they already experienced the big E. So, when they hear a lecture, teaching, metaphor, etc about it, they are initially surprised by it. They want to know more about what it is. Some ppl call this "awakening." The big E is when the person has walked his/her full path and applied it in life.

[isabel]

rupert spira talks about this, he says that it does happen instantly but it's rare

you hear stories about people who get it instantly and then have to sit on a park bench for a year to figure out what happened to them (eckhart tolle)

but he says for many people it's gradual

and can even be so gradual that when it does happen you just look up and calmly say "oh so that's what it is" 

[Raquel]

It is true that some people get it straight away and others don't.. The factors involved in this are enoumerous and arguable... I can say from observation that some people are just not interested at all (or should I say their ego) and neither ready. 

The same way not all people can ge it as naturally, patanjali YS also mention that there is 3 types of practitioners: light, middle and intense... And of course this will add up in there journey to enlightenment. 

From a vedic point of view, human life has the sole purpose of self realization, so understanding this teachings are related with the soul stage on the wheel of rebirth (samskaras).  You would be attached to the wheel of death-birth until you fully realize It. 

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Raquel

[Forestluv]

@Preetom Regarding Adi Shankara’s characteristics of spiritual maturity, was their endpoint what they considered to be enlightenment? Did they also describe post-enlightenment characteristics?

I think it’s interesting to integrate sudden awakening with development / maturity. 

[Hellspeed]

Folks, don't shoot for fixed paradigms. Continue diving and relax in that fall.