Existence is a TV Screen: My Enlightenment Experience

[ground]

3 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

It’s all empty.

Empty of truth, yes.

[Forestluv]

18 minutes ago, ground said:

Empty of truth, yes.

Empty.

[ground]

7 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Empty.

'Empty' always need to be qualified as 'empty of what?' otherwise 'empty' has no meaning. Therefore 'empty of truth'.

[Forestluv]

9 minutes ago, ground said:

'Empty' always need to be qualified as 'empty of what?' otherwise 'empty' has no meaning. Therefore 'empty of truth'.

No. Even the word “empty” is saying too much. 

This is why consistent practice is so important.

[ground]

9 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

No. Even the word “empty” is saying too much. 

This is why consistent practice is so important.

you are deceived by words empty of truth. you still have not gone beyond acceptance and rejection. This is why appropriate practice is so important.

[TheAvatarState]

16 hours ago, ground said:

you are deceived by words empty of truth. you still have not gone beyond acceptance and rejection. This is why appropriate practice is so important.

@Serotoninluv is right. All words are empty. This is because all language is relative, and only means something in relation to something else. Think of language like a web or system, where the connections are more important than the word itself. Any one word is just a pointer, because that word is defined by a series of other words, and those words are defined by a series of other words, and when you get down as far as you can go, the base words only point to an experience. If someone has not had basic human experiences, then our language would mean nothing. Words cannot equal truth, they can only point to it. If you're still having trouble getting this, consider how much your experience colors and shapes your understanding of words. Your understanding of "enlightenment," for example, is vastly different now than when you first heard it. It's not even the same word to you!

Rationality cannot be trusted, for it is empty and completely controlled by your emotions. Can it be USEFUL? Of course. But understand what it is fundamentally, and realize it can only, at best, point to an experience that is truthful. If rationality led to truth, then every brilliant scientist would be stage Turquoise, wouldn't they? 

Edited December 27, 2018 by TheAvatarState

[Forestluv]

15 hours ago, ground said:

you are deceived by words empty of truth. you still have not gone beyond acceptance and rejection.

The intellect is just one mode of being. There are other modes. Yet, the intellect needs to settle down, let go of and surrendered for other modes of being. For many minds, the intellect is dominant and the default mode of being. Practices such as meditation and yoga are essential for de-conditioning the intellect as well as expand into other modes of being.

[ground]

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

The intellect is just one mode of being. There are other modes. Yet, the intellect needs to settle down, let go of and surrendered for other modes of being. For many minds, the intellect is dominant and the default mode of being. Practices such as meditation and yoga are essential for de-conditioning the intellect as well as expand into other modes of being.

This is a  forum, right? If people did physical yoga and meditation and let go of the intellect and 'surrendered for other modes of being' when joining this forum then no communication would happen and this forum would be a joke. So a forum is nothing other than an appeal to the mode of being called 'conceptuality'. In order to apply conceptuality the intellect is needed. Otherwise one would not be able to construct sentences.
Now if conceptuality and intellect are required to communicate in a forum then you have the choice to either think and express yourself irrationally or rationally. Either way is fully compatible with mental yoga or - if we expand the meaning of 'meditation' - either irrationality or rationality AND meditation (mental yoga) can be practiced simultaneously.
 

Edited December 27, 2018 by ground

[TheAvatarState]

@ground In order to come back to this forum and communicate, one has to enter a crude form of being: intellect and rationality. There's only words here, only pointers to higher modes of being. One has to conceptualize the words into meaning, then to take action on it, one has to ascend to trans-rational modes through practices. Seratonin meant that most people only know one mode, the intellect, but to be a successful self-actualizer, one needs to be able to shift fluidly between different modes of being. Become the Alchemist.

I'm not really sure what you guys are arguing about. Are you denying the validity of other modes of being? Can we find common ground here?

[ground]

46 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

@ground ...

I'm not really sure what you guys are arguing about.

It is just an exchange of views.

[Forestluv]

10 hours ago, ground said:

This is a  forum, right? If people did physical yoga and meditation and let go of the intellect and 'surrendered for other modes of being' when joining this forum then no communication would happen and this forum would be a joke. So a forum is nothing other than an appeal to the mode of being called 'conceptuality'. In order to apply conceptuality the intellect is needed. Otherwise one would not be able to construct sentences.
Now if conceptuality and intellect are required to communicate in a forum then you have the choice to either think and express yourself irrationally or rationally. Either way is fully compatible with mental yoga or - if we expand the meaning of 'meditation' - either irrationality or rationality AND meditation (mental yoga) can be practiced simultaneously.
 

That is how it appears to a mind contracted within intellect. It seems quite reasonable from that perspective.

Letting go of intellect and having direct experience of nonintellectual states of being is key. What is being pointed to here is not about expanding meaning intellectually. The intellect gets attached to words. Let go of the meaning - let go of the entire intellect for a while. This cannot be explained to an intellect, it comes through practice and direct experience. Once these modes of being are experienced, they can be expressed indirectly through language. To minds contracted within the intellect, we call these expressions “pointers” to help guide the mind. Among beings with the direct experience, it is simply the expression. And they are wonderful expressions that connect via nonintellectual modes. 

Modes of being beyond the intellect are expressed daily on the forum. Yet a mind that only uses an intellectual lens will not “get it”, because it’s not to be gotten intellectually. Such expressions may seem irrational, ignorant and naive to an intellectual mind set. As well, the intellect may interpet such expressions as deceptive.

There is nothing wrong or bad with an intellect. There are wonderful aspects of the intellect. Yet the intellect can dominate such that it’s mode is the default. This leads to a contracted state of being. 

[ground]

13 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

That is how it appears to a mind contracted within intellect. It seems quite reasonable from that perspective.

It's reasonable but there isn't any truth. Same applies to your words and for 'It's reasonable but there isn't any truth.' So ultimately there is an infinite regress if one is looking for what is true. That's the sphere of language and conceptuality.

 

13 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Letting go of intellect and having direct experience of nonintellectual states of being is key.

That isn't true either.

13 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

... What is being pointed to here is not about expanding meaning intellectually. The intellect gets attached to words. ...

Challenge is to not getting attached to words/concepts while communicating. This is achieved through concomitant contemplation.

13 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Modes of being beyond the intellect are expressed daily on the forum. Yet a mind that only uses an intellectual lens will not “get it”, because it’s not to be gotten intellectually. Such expressions may seem irrational, ignorant and naive to an intellectual mind set. As well, the intellect may interpet such expressions as deceptive.

That's the advantage of rational intellect: it enables to see deception. This is helpful in all forums or meetings where people trade beliefs, And people are trading beliefs all the time. Rationality is the Guru's protection against manipulation, brainwashing and cult. One does not get trapped in beliefs. That is why one can fully rely on rationality once one has received the Guru's blessings and one knows that everything is the Guru's blessing. Nothing is missing and everything is perfect.

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by ground