Existence is a TV Screen: My Enlightenment Experience

[Forestluv]

11 minutes ago, ground said:

Too bad. your urge to proselytize seems to be overwhelming. I am very familiar with that kind of argumentation. It can be observed with all religious believers. All arguments you are applying I could reverse and apply to you/your words. But that would be a very childish quarrel 'It's you' - 'No it's you' 

That is how it appears from a rational perspective. It is not to say that what is being expressed is “wrong”. It is to say it is a contracted perspective. 

A logical / rational mode of being is merely one mode. The “problem” with being confined to this rational mode is that the mind will misinterpret post-rational modes as being irrational or childish. A classic example is equating advanced spiritual levels with the immature mythical/magical level of religion/spirituality. A mind confined to rational thought, and which lacks direct experience of post-rational being, will be unable to differentiate between the two.

[TheAvatarState]

46 minutes ago, ground said:

Too bad. your urge to proselytize seems to be overwhelming. I am very familiar with that kind of argumentation. It can be observed with all religious believers. All arguments you are applying I could reverse and apply to you/your words. But that would be a very childish quarrel 'It's you' - 'No it's you' 

Textbook pre-rational/trans-rational fallacy. You are trapped in your own mind, deluded. 

[ground]

27 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

That is how it appears from a rational perspective. It is not to say that what is being expressed is “wrong”. It is to say it is a contracted perspective. 

A logical / rational mode of being is merely one mode. The “problem” with being confined to this rational mode is that the mind will misinterpret post-rational modes as being irrational or childish. A classic example is equating advanced spiritual levels with the immature mythical/magical level of religion/spirituality. A mind confined to rational thought, and which lacks direct experience of post-rational being, will be unable to differentiate between the two.

See, i don't know how often in this forum I have already said that conceptuality isn't 'it'. Rationality is conceptuality.  I have never asserted that rationality is 'it' or that it is the sole path. In the beginning conceptuality/rationality was deceptive but now I have attained the capacity to freely apply rationality wherever it is appropriate and/or I like to. I also do use language as is appropriate and conventional and if a behaviour can be observed among children and is unreasonable then I call it 'childish'.
Obviously you are completely misunderstanding my words since you are imputing your template of a naiv person/newbie without experience to my username and my words. But you do not know anything about my background. All you can know is that I am not a follower of Leo's teachings. But the latter shouldn't be a problem for you since Leo himself has emphasized more than once that there are many different spiritual paths and that there is not only one.
 

Edited December 24, 2018 by ground

[ground]

5 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

Textbook pre-rational/trans-rational fallacy. You are trapped in your own mind, deluded. 

My mind doesn't even exist

Edited December 24, 2018 by ground

[TheAvatarState]

4 minutes ago, ground said:

My mind doesn't even exits

Isn't it obvious that your mind can use that as an exits from any situation? In the Absolute sense, yes, your statement means everything. In the relative sense, where "reality" and language reside, your statement means nothing. 

[ground]

18 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

 In the relative sense, where "reality" and language reside, your statement means nothing. 

But this applies to you speculative statement to which I replied, too:

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, ground said:

See, i don't know how often in this forum I have already said that conceptuality isn't 'it'. Rationality is conceptuality.  I have never asserted that rationality is 'it' or that it is the sole path. In the beginning conceptuality/rationality was deceptive but now I have attained the capacity to freely apply rationality wherever it is appropriate and/or I like to. I also do use language as is appropriate and conventional and if a behaviour can be observed among children and is unreasonable then I call it 'childish'.
Obviously you are completely misunderstanding my words since you are imputing your template of a naiv person/newbie without experience to my username and my words. But you do not know anything about my background. All you can know is that I am not a follower of Leo's teachings. But the latter shouldn't be a problem for you since Leo himself has emphasized more than once that there are many different spiritual paths and that there is not only one

As with a healthy ecosystem, multiple components integrate together within a holistic mode of being.

Direct experience is really important for this integration. Through practice, the mind can relax, let go and uncover. A busy mind is like clouds that obscure awareness.

This is within trans-personal domains. Holding on to personalities tends to be a distraction from consciousness expansion.

[ground]

17 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

As with a healthy ecosystem, multiple components integrate together within a holistic mode of being.

Direct experience is really important for this integration. Through practice, the mind can relax, let go and uncover. A busy mind is like clouds that obscure awareness.

I could have said that ... but wait ... I wouldn't have used the expression 'direct experience' since in my linguistic system 'experience' is always 'experience of sth' and thus deceptive due to being bound to conceptuality. So better 'cessation of experience is really important for this integration'

17 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

This is within trans-personal domains. Holding on to personalities is a distraction.  

In my linguistic system 'no self' cannot be characterized other than 'no self'. It is a non-implicative negation so there is no 'trans-personal domain' replacing self. And yes, seeing personalities as truly existing is a delusion. Nevertheless we are communicating here on the level of conventional language otherwise we couldn't communicate. And on this level talking about you and me and about personalities is no problem. It's only language.

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by ground

[Forestluv]

15 minutes ago, ground said:

I could have said that ... but wait ... I wouldn't have used the expression 'direct experience' since in my linguistic system 'experience' is always 'experience of sth' and thus deceptive due to being bound to conceptuality. So better 'cessation of experience is really important for this integration'

In my linguistic system 'no self' cannot be characterized other than 'no self'. It is a non-implicative negation so there is no 'trans-personal domain' replacing self. And yes, seeing personalities as truly existing is a delusion. Nevertheless we are communicating here on the level of conventional language otherwise we couldn't communicate. And on this level talking about you and me and about personalities is no problem. It's only language.

 

This is all very reasonable, yet also contracted. 

This is why the practices are so important for expansion. Logical thinking can be like clouds that obscure clear witnessing.

Through practice, the logical/analytical/reasonable thinking mind can relax. This allows for a stillness / emptiness to be revealed.

Ime, yoga, breath work and meditation are foundational practices. Other tools such as self inquiry and psychedelics can be useful as well. Yet, I think it’s best to establish a foundation before utilizing advanced tools.

[ground]

3 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

This is all very reasonable, yet also contracted. 

This is why the practices are so important for expansion. Logical thinking can be like clouds that obscure clear witnessing.

Through practice, the logical/analytical/reasonable thinking mind can relax. This allows for a stillness / emptiness to be revealed.

Ime, yoga, breath work and meditation are foundational practices. Other tools such as self inquiry and psychedelics can be useful as well. Yet, I think it’s best to establish a foundation before utilizing advanced tools.

Well see, communication is the sphere of conceptuality. If you do not integrate then your conceptuality is deceptive for you. But even if you integrate you cannot know whether your words are deceptive for those you are communicating with.
So I am fully aware and integrating but since I cannot read your mind I cannot exclude that my words are deceptive for you.

Anyway since communication is the sphere of conceptuality and since I am fully aware of the dangers of communication and empty words that cause potentially deceptive conceptuality on the side of my communication partners I have decided to apply the discipline of rationality when it comes to communication. Why? Simply to apply words consistently. That is all I can do avoid using language in an inconsistent way and to avoid adding linguistic confusion to the delusion that is already potentially inherent in conceptuality from the outset.

When not communicating I am applying a diversity of non-rational methods but also methods that include rational analysis to dissolve conceptuality and thus rationality itself.

My teachers/gurus have not deceived me!

 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, ground said:

Well see, communication is the sphere of conceptuality. If you do not integrate then your conceptuality is deceptive for you. But even if you integrate you cannot know whether your words are deceptive for those you are communicating with.
So I am fully aware and integrating but since I cannot read your mind I cannot exclude that my words are deceptive for you.

Anyway since communication is the sphere of conceptuality and since I am fully aware of the dangers of communication and empty words that cause potentially deceptive conceptuality on the side of my communication partners I have decided to apply the discipline of rationality when it comes to communication. Why? Simply to apply words consistently. That is all I can do avoid using language in an inconsistent way and to avoid adding linguistic confusion to the delusion that is already potentially inherent in conceptuality from the outset.

When not communicating I am applying a diversity of non-rational methods but also methods that include rational analysis to dissolve conceptuality and thus rationality itself.

My teachers/gurus have not deceived me!

 

What might happen if you placed all the words aside for a while and simply sat down and observed? Without words. Without thought.

Simple awareness of being.

[TheAvatarState]

44 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Simple awareness of being.

I have some thoughts on this, and please let me know what you think. Awareness of being aware is perhaps one step removed from being. An awareness of being aware is itself a mental construction, for you have to create a program or construct that is aware of the ever present awareness. There is only being. "Are you aware?" is more direct and accurate than "Are you aware of being aware?" The latter is more easily understood by the rational mind because of this disconnect (illusion), the former cuts through everything.   

[ground]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

What might happen if you placed all the words aside for a while and simply sat down and observed? Without words. Without thought.

Simple awareness of being.

Nothing happens anew since knowing has been and is and will be spontaneously present.

[Forestluv]

54 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

I have some thoughts on this, and please let me know what you think. Awareness of being aware is perhaps one step removed from being. An awareness of being aware is itself a mental construction, for you have to create a program or construct that is aware of the ever present awareness. There is only being. "Are you aware?" is more direct and accurate than "Are you aware of being aware?" The latter is more easily understood by the rational mind because of this disconnect (illusion), the former cuts through everything.   

A mind conditioned into thought tends to be very attached/identified as thinking within a personal storyline. For such a mind, I think a process of de-identification is useful. This can be an arduous process that can take years. It’s not enough for the mind to think “ahhh yes, the self is just a construct. I know that”. It goes much deeper into direct experience and embodiment. For minds strongly attached to materialism and personification, I’d recommend lots of practice to establish distance between observer and object. Spend time in immaterial nonvetbal spaces.

At the extreme, a mind may come to know two realms; dual and nondual. For a while, it may feel like the mind is “dancing between two worlds” - flipping back and forth between dual and nondual mind states. 

At this point, the mind can begin integrating dual and nondual into a holistic state of being.

This is all related to the op about movie characters and pixels on a screen.

[Forestluv]

44 minutes ago, ground said:

Nothing happens anew since knowing has been and is and will be spontaneously present.

Great. Perhaps the mind can further relax, let go of the “knowing has been and is” part and sit within abiding prescence. 

[tentacion]

Yes, I can relate to this. My first and only time on LSD everything became energy, I could see energy everywhere. Suddenly everything stopped, everything went back to normal. Then about 15 seconds later it began again, energy everywhere. It was like I was in a movie screen, the movie paused then it began again. Not kidding

[ground]

15 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Great. Perhaps the mind can further relax, let go of the “knowing has been and is” part and sit within abiding prescence. 

Whatever there is that may relax,whatever there is that may let go, still there is knowing. Lucid emptiness knowing itself.

Edited December 24, 2018 by ground

[Forestluv]

12 minutes ago, ground said:

Whatever there is that may relax,whatever there is that may let go, still there is knowing. Lucid emptiness knowing itself.

That’s beautiful ♥️ ? 

And within the magnificence, there are many beautiful spaces

[ground]

On 24.12.2018 at 11:16 PM, Serotoninluv said:

That’s beautiful ♥️ ? 

And within the magnificence, there are many beautiful spaces

Just empty words. Don't let yourself be fooled by empty words.

Rationality can be very helpful to avoid being fooled by words and concepts.

Edited December 25, 2018 by ground

[Forestluv]

8 minutes ago, ground said:

Just empty words. Don't let yourself be fooled by empty words.

Rationality can be very helpful to avoid being fooled by words and concepts.

It’s all empty.