Existence is a TV Screen: My Enlightenment Experience

[TheAvatarState]

 

11 minutes ago, ground said:

Well I would like to use the most conventional language, i.e. expressions one does find in common dictionaries. Using expressions only used in small communities of believers ('Mu' is know from a Zen koan and Zen folks typically are believers) would to a certain degree create the impression that I would advocate their view which is what I do not want.

? So what you're after is political correctness, not clarity? You realize you're at actualized.org, not the youtube comment section? Using a Zen koan to clarify your point does not mean you support Zen Buddhism, it just means you recognize they got one aspect of reality right, where there's a gap in our English language. That's like saying English words with Ancient Greek roots means you support Aristotelian Logic!

[Forestluv]

15 minutes ago, ground said:

But beware of asserting where words are pointing to!

Of course the ego will say beware.  The ego wants to maintain control of the narrative. Fear is perhaps it’s strongest weapon.

At times, one must venture into uncomfortable spaces to find truth. 

[Anton Rogachevski]

I'm happy to hear man. Thanks for sharing and inspiring.

The video though, made me quite sad, to see this woman who was looking for 40 years for something she just can't find. And then the man who keeps telling her the same thing one tells a beginner seeker.

This made me realise that there might be a need to recognise when people are not ready, and to keep this trap away from them. She literally burned her precious time doing this to no avail at all. Is there really no other way to help her be conscious and meditate?

If we only had a way to recognize and give people the material they currently need to develop, and keeping the too advanced material for when they are ready. I realise how crazy that thought is, but what else can we do?

[TheAvatarState]

@Anton Rogachevski I agree, it was sad. If she was told this at the beginning, she probably would have had it, however, the 40 years of work was working against her. We need more people like Rupert Spira showing the direct path, before people become too indoctrinated in indirect spiritual practice. I feel like enlightenment should happen within a couple years, then you can move on from there to truly develop yourself. Of course that's not always going to happen, that's more of the ideal. 

[Anton Rogachevski]

@TheAvatarState She said that she read many books, so she heard what he said a million times over, but it just didn't register. If the person is not ready it's just not going to happen. She had to grow and develop to reach that point. So I guess in a sense the spiritual path might have helped. Still we don't know that she got it there while talking to Rupert, or will ever get it.

Some people simply aren't meant to wake up in this or the next couple of life times, that's just evoulution.

 

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Anton Rogachevski

[TheAvatarState]

@Anton Rogachevski well then no one can be blamed other than herself. 

[Nahm]

7 hours ago, SoonHei said:

@Nahm

So an enlightenment experience first and foremost reveals our true nature. And that's it?  Ya.

When does one become aware of its various (infinite) facets? When one takes psychedelics with a proper foundation, or surrenders the entirety of their life. Also, “it’s” is actually your’s, there’s no second entity, nor separate object, etc. 

Like leo said, infinite screen or infinite love or infinite intelligence? All the same. “Facets” is just a limitation of communication, there aren’t really facets. 

Does a fully enlightened person (Rupert Spira, sadhguru, Eckhart) have full knowledge of all facets of Reality? Don’t know. Doubtful.  None of those people are enlightened btw, nor do they claim to be. Very important distinction, in terms of how you internalize things, such as that you are ‘less than’ or ‘not special’ like them. That’s the opposite of their message. Such humility takes a lot of life. 

Like i have seen a few of leo's enlightenment experience videos and in each of them he talks about a different facet... It’s the same as talking about the facets of you - 

 

Are those facets of Reality still content in the dream but it is also TRUE because it's an insight?

 

So essentially, two enlightened beings may not have the same understanding or depth of Reality?

 

The only one common thing would be that they are aware of the TRUTH but their understanding would be varied?

All you’d have are answers, words. 

Instead....

 

What is awareness? 

[purerogue]

I do not know if it has anything to do with lifetimes, but you have to constantly switch perspectives and learn, improve, I could give you most profound truths of good life, they are actually everywhere in this forum, one might see them, others might not , but they will give nothing to you if you will not truly understand them, or will have no prior experience with other perspectives to understand why they are so important.

We all want happy life, but we do not want to accept happy life as  truth, because to truly live happy life , you have to find why it is truth and it takes allot of time. 

 

[TheAvatarState]

55 minutes ago, Nahm said:

All you’d have are answers, words. 

Instead....

 

What is awareness? 

Perhaps even more direct:

Are you aware?

[Nahm]

@purerogue Well said man. 

@SoonHei You got the theory down and then some. More is not progress. IMO, you are at peak thinking - the ceiling of thought.   Now, transcend the thinking, into awareness. 

What’s your plan?

A new practice?

A retreat?

Psychedelics?

Is ”I don’t know” where you’re at?

What’s the plan?

 

[SoonHei]

@Serotoninluv 

 

@Nahm yes

I agree. I find myself to be in a lot of the intellectual theory and understanding

Need to bring it more into direct experience and raising awareness

Plan is to develop some strong practice

 

But i wud much rather term that as a non-practice... Being that its so simple that it requires you to out-wit yourself... Dont want to be stuck "doing" a practice 

 

But goal is to see the true nature:)

 

 

Also, side Question and doesn't relate to the search or anything

 

But why do you say Eckhart tolle or rupert spira arent enlightened?

Isn't their seeking done.. or in Eckhart's case. Had ego death and now there is no ego there... Isn't that enlightenment? They are aware of their true nature and live from that place moment to moment? No?

Just curious why you are saying they aren't enlightened?

 

Is this related to the 10 ox pics? That they maybe up there at step 8 or 9 but aren't at 10 yet?

 

 

[Forestluv]

@SoonHei The illusory personality dynamic does not become enlightened. One might consider the personality to be within enlightenment/awareness/consciousness/reality. There is simply enlightenment/awareness/consciousness/reality. 

Are Tolle and Spira enlightenment/awareness/consciousness/reality? Of course. Yet, so is everything - it’s not like it’s some sort of achievement. 

[Anton Rogachevski]

@TheAvatarState Do you blame a child for drinking bleach? Or the irresponsible parent?

[TheAvatarState]

@Anton Rogachevski Don't confuse apples with oranges here... Take 100% responsibility for your life, any less is suffering.

No one forced her to do this work. At the end of the day, you can't blame a teacher for not giving you the proper guidance or not tailoring the content to your specific needs. The proper content was out there. She took the course. Not everyone is going to get this stuff, it's just a fact of life.

[ground]

12 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Of course the ego will say beware.

Nice try

12 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

The ego wants to maintain control of the narrative. Fear is perhaps it’s strongest weapon.

At times, one must venture into uncomfortable spaces to find truth. 

Well maybe its 'I'-'my'-'mine' that makes up the narrative of an alleged 'ego' to justify its clinging to the idea 'truth' without which it would feel uncomfortable ?

 

Serotoninluv, let's leave it at that to demonstrate that the play with words and characters does not necessarily trigger innate habits and thus cause going astray into the deadlock of 'belief vs non-belief' in the context of 'is vs isn't'.

Edited December 24, 2018 by ground

[ground]

12 hours ago, TheAvatarState said:

? So what you're after is political correctness, not clarity? You realize you're at actualized.org, not the youtube comment section?

No, as I said I am after the use of langague that is conventional in a given language based on the dictionaries and the grammar of that language. Political correctness is something else.

12 hours ago, TheAvatarState said:

Using a Zen koan to clarify your point does not mean you support Zen Buddhism, it just means you recognize they got one aspect of reality right, where there's a gap in our English language. That's like saying English words with Ancient Greek roots means you support Aristotelian Logic!

See, I've explained one of my guidelines for choosing words within the sphere of one language. you do not have to make up inappropriate similes to show that my guideline isn't yours. It's perfectly ok if we don't agree on the use of words, i.e. concatenations of characters ('Mu' isn't even a word in English language).

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by ground

[rabbitat]

On 12/22/2018 at 9:31 PM, TheAvatarState said:

Your job--as the character in the movie--is to play and enjoy your part in the movie, but to also become aware of the screen that you're being played on. Enlightenment is being aware of the screen.

First time hearing this analogy and loving that you shared it! Recently had a brief experience that was similar igniting some fire on this path for me that seems to wax and wane with life's current. Spark ♨_♨ 

[TheAvatarState]

@rabbitat I'm happy you're finding that inner spark! Keep nurturing it, and it'll turn into a steady flame! ? That flame is known as passion. 

Try to bring what I said into your direct experience. It's one thing to conceptualize it, it's quite another to BE it. 

[Forestluv]

10 hours ago, ground said:

Well maybe its 'I'-'my'-'mine' that makes up the narrative of an alleged 'ego' to justify its clinging to the idea 'truth' without which it would feel uncomfortable ?

That is certainly a possibility at an immature stage . The mind can create an “enlightenment story”.

As well, that is how it would appear to a resistant mind at a rational stage of spiritual development. A mind contracted within rational thought will view both irrational and post-rational as irrational.

The main dynamic I sense here is attachment/identification to a rational framework. There is “something” beyond/prior to that framework that hasn’t been revealed.  

This is one reason why direct experience is so important for spirituality maturity. When used properly, a variety of techniques are useful including yoga, psychedelics and self inquiry. Leo’s latest video describes the self inquiry practice. 

[ground]

42 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

That is certainly a possibility at an immature stage . As well, that is how it would appear to a resistant mind at a rational stage of spiritual development.

The main dynamic I sense here is attachment/identification to a rational framework. There is “something” beyond/prior to that framework that hasn’t been revealed.  

This is one reason why direct experience is so important for spirituality maturity. When used properly, a variety of techniques are useful including yoga, psychedelics and self inquiry. Leo’s latest video describes the self inquiry practice. 

Too bad. your urge to proselytize seems to be overwhelming. I am very familiar with that kind of argumentation. It can be observed with all religious believers. All arguments you are applying I could reverse and apply to you/your words. But that would be a very childish quarrel 'It's you' - 'No it's you'