If the universe was infinite

[cetus]

And xyz coordinates is science. A human tool. 

[Roman25]

3 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

And xyz coordinates is science. A human tool. 

The location of where it is isn't relevant to whether it is infinitely large or finite. One can not know the location of a beach ball to know that it's not infinitely large.

[TheAvatarState]

@Roman Edouard I wish you the best of luck in your pursuit of science. But please don't ask about this stuff in a spirituality forum if you're not interested in listening. You're going to get answers that don't make any sense to you, and you're going to want to debate and argue and retort. You're not actually genuinely interested in learning, you're interested in proving a point. Just let it go.

[Roman25]

37 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

@Roman Edouard I wish you the best of luck in your pursuit of science. But please don't ask about this stuff in a spirituality forum if you're not interested in listening. You're going to get answers that don't make any sense to you, and you're going to want to debate and argue and retort. You're not actually genuinely interested in learning, you're interested in proving a point. Just let it go.

Me not being interested in spiritual beliefs about reality doesn't equate to me not being interested in learning. Learning is perhaps the main thing I care for. As for me trying to prove a point, I'm simply waiting for a good counter-argument. I have been proven wrong in some of my other topics and admitted it. Aruging with people is not something I emotionally feel comfortable with doing but I want knowledge, not what feels good. This just isn't the case here yet. An example of me admitting to being wrong can be found in this thread: 

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Roman Edouard
Added a sentence

[karkaore]

@Roman Edouard @Roman Edouardu 

This all is speculative. Your point of view is a concept, my point of view is a concept. All we can do is debate. No mind can know the Truth. Infinite, finite fuck knows. It just is. Right before you. And you will never know. Yes, playing this game is fun, learning stuff, discussing ideas and concepts. As long as you don't delude yourself into thinking that you know anything.

You will be a good scientist with that attitude. I wish you well. ?

[Roman25]

8 minutes ago, karkaore said:

@Roman Edouard @Roman Edouardu 

This all is speculative. Your point of view is a concept, my point of view is a concept. All we can do is debate. No mind can know the Truth. Infinite, finite fuck knows. It just is. Right before you. And you will never know. Yes, playing this game is fun, learning stuff, discussing ideas and concepts. As long as you don't delude yourself into thinking that you know anything.

You will be a good scientist with that attitude. I wish you well. ?

Well said, good luck to you as well.

[winterknight]

3 hours ago, Roman Edouard said:

I have a hard time believing that the universe is infinite. Mainly because of 2 reasons. Space is black & you can only see so many stars.

Reason #2. You can see an individual star in space. If space was infinite then there would be an infinite number of stars. So you wouldn't see the black. All you'd see is stars covering the whole sky.

Your thoughts or counter arguments?

If there were an infinite amount of space with an infinite amount of stars, it would also take an infinite amount of time for the light from all those stars to travel through that infinite space to reach earth. But the earth hasn't been around an infinite amount of time, and neither has this universe.

So we'd never see all of it, only the tiniest fraction.

[Roman25]

@DrMobius Dude, you didn't have to be a jerk to him just to disagree with him. Not everything he said was wrong.

[universe]

@all The amount of light/stars we see has nothing at all to do with how long the earth exists.

[Roman25]

5 minutes ago, winterknight said:

If there were an infinite amount of space with an infinite amount of stars, it would also take an infinite amount of time for the light from all those stars to travel through that infinite space to reach earth. But the earth hasn't been around an infinite amount of time, and neither has this universe.

So we'd never see all of it, only the tiniest fraction.

I understand your point but you'd think that NSA would say that SOME stars are appearing out of no where do to their light reaching earth but that never happened at all. They constantly monitor space and the only difference is the planet locations since the planets orbit around your point. Even the big dipper is exactly the same. There are no new stars that appeared around it. You do have an excellent point and that did take quite some nice thinking. But I'm afraid that NSA has been observing the personable universe for many years now.

[TheAvatarState]

27 minutes ago, Roman Edouard said:

Me not being interested in spiritual beliefs about reality doesn't equate to me not being interested in learning.

It doesn't affect your learning as long as whatever you're learning fits in with your existing materialist paradigm. If it doesn't match up, you will discount it. For instance, you are not interested in spiritual beliefs, so you are fundamentally closed off from exploring metaphysical matters. This is because you've chosen to study science and perhaps make that your field of study. Science is your livelihood. You will have egoic reactions to anything that doesn't line up with that, and you won't even be aware of it because your mind hides it so well.

However, I get a vibe from you that there may be more there, and you're perhaps just a little bit misguided, no fault of your own of course. So I'll humor you.

Have you ever heard of the Hubble Ultra-Deep Field? It is a photograph of dark, deep space (previously thought to contain no known galaxies). This photo was a composite of many exposures of 10-11 DAYS at a time. Here is a link to a wonderful YouTube video of it.

In light of this, you simply can't make the argument that just because you can't see all the galaxies with you naked eye, that means the universe is not infinite. Some of these galaxies are moving FASTER than the speed of light! A true scientist would be humbled at how little we know about this mysterious and mystical existence.

[Roman25]

Just now, universe said:

@all The amount of light/stars we see has nothing at all to do with how long the earth exists.

Yes, rocks are how we determine how old the Earth is. That light/stars thing that I was talking about with other members in this thread belongs in a different category than that.

[universe]

1 minute ago, Roman Edouard said:

Yes, rocks are how we determine how old the Earth is. That light/stars thing that I was talking about with other members in this thread belongs in a different category than that.

Allright.

Its just that you can add as many years as you want to this planet and it would not change the amount of stars we see at all.

NSA doesnt watch the stars, it watches you.

Space is fucking huge, there is no "suddenly a new star pops up", you underestimate how long star forming takes. Also all stars we can see are relatively close. Yes, the night sky would be white instead of black IF our eyes where any good. You can point to every black space you see and zoom in with a good enough lense and you see stars everywhere!

[Roman25]

4 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

It doesn't affect your learning as long as whatever you're learning fits in with your existing materialist paradigm. If it doesn't match up, you will discount it. For instance, you are not interested in spiritual beliefs, so you are fundamentally closed off from exploring metaphysical matters. This is because you've chosen to study science and perhaps make that your field of study. Science is your livelihood. You will have egoic reactions to anything that doesn't line up with that, and you won't even be aware of it because your mind hides it so well.

However, I get a vibe from you that there may be more there, and you're perhaps just a little bit misguided, no fault of your own of course. So I'll humor you.

Have you ever heard of the Hubble Ultra-Deep Field? It is a photograph of dark, deep space (previously thought to contain no known galaxies). This photo was a composite of many exposures of 10-11 DAYS at a time. Here is a link to a wonderful YouTube video of it.

In light of this, you simply can't make the argument that just because you can't see all the galaxies with you naked eye, that means the universe is not infinite. Some of these galaxies are moving FASTER than the speed of light! A true scientist would be humbled at how little we know about this mysterious and mystical existence.

I could definitely get back into spirituality as I grow older. I'll just leave that book on the shelf for now. Or perhaps learn more about it before I come to a close on it. I'll take your suggestion. And yeah, the HUDF is super interesting. Glad that the astronauts did something innovative with the hubble tele to make that discovery. It is amazing to think of how many galaxies there are. That opens many opportunities for planets that have living organisms that get to experience happiness. Thanks for that video man. Beautiful to see galaxies.

I just find it odd how many galaxies are in a swirl shape. Most likely has something to do with the super-massive black hole that's in the center of each galaxy. That's been proven a while back. Each galaxy only contains a single super massive black hole, each super massive black hole is calculated to be half the mass of the galaxy itself. Some black holes even spin millions of times a second. Why do they spin so fast? When a star explodes, if large enough, a black whole gets created. All of that power from the explosion will make the black hole spin super fast. There is no force in space that interrupts the spinning.

Interesting stuff

 

2 minutes ago, DrMobius said:

@Roman Edouard If that's jerkish by your standards, boy... wait until I run out of coffee in the morning.

oki

[Roman25]

5 minutes ago, universe said:

Allright.

Its just that you can add as many years as you want to this planet and it would not change the amount of stars we see at all.

NSA doesnt watch the stars, it watches you.

Space is fucking huge, there is no "suddenly a new star pops up", you underestimate how long star forming takes. Also all stars we can see are relatively close. Yes, the night sky would be white instead of black IF our eyes where any good. You can point to every black space you see and zoom in with a good enough lense and you see stars everywhere!

Eh, stars aren't really as big as they appear. They take up almost no space at all. All matter is 99.9999999999996% of empty matter. Here is the math: (copied, pasted of course)

A hydrogen atom is made from a single proton that's circled by a single electron. How big is a hydrogen atom? The radius of a hydrogen atom is known as the Bohr Radius, which is equal to .529 × 10-10 meters. That means that a hydrogen atom has a volume of about 6.2 × 10-31 cubic meters.

How big is the proton at the center of a hydrogen atom? Recent studies indicate that protons have a radius of about .84 × 10-15 meters, giving them a volume of about 2.5 × 10-45 cubic meters.

We need to do a little more math to find out how much of a hydrogen atom is empty space:

Percent Full = 100 × (Volume Filled / Total Volume)
Percent Full = 100 × (2.5 × 10-45 m3 / 6.2 × 10-31 m3)
Percent Full = 100 × (4 × 10-15)
Percent Full = 4 × 10-13 %
Percent Full = 0.0000000000004%

If 0.0000000000004% of a hydrogen atom is full, then the rest of it must be empty:

Percent Empty = 100% - Percent Full
Percent Empty = 100% - 0.0000000000004%
Percent Empty = 99.9999999999996%

A hydrogen atom is about 99.9999999999996% empty space. Put another way, if a hydrogen atom were the size of the earth, the proton at its center would be about 200 meters (600 feet) across. While I wouldn't want something that big landing on my head, it's tiny compared to the size of the earth.

 

[TheAvatarState]

@Roman Edouard Here is an article I posted just a couple weeks ago about a new scientific theory that could explain many of the phenomena you're talking about. I think you'll find it very interesting! This is at the cutting edge of current cosmological understanding... and what is it pointing to?

 

[universe]

@Roman Edouard I meant space in the universe. As in night sky. You can point to any black point in the night sky and zoom in - boom stars everywhere!

[cetus]

 

2 minutes ago, universe said:

You can point to every black space you see and zoom in with a good enough lense and you see stars everywhere!

 Good point. And not just stars but also emission nebula abundent in hydrogen alpha. Than there is infared, x-ray, ect. The stars seen with the naked eye only represent the "white light" portion of what is there.

[Rilles]

muh so many stars muh you dont see every human being in your field of vision do you

dumb

[Roman25]

9 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

@Roman Edouard Here is an article I posted just a couple weeks ago about a new scientific theory that could explain many of the phenomena you're talking about. I think you'll find it very interesting! This is at the cutting edge of current cosmological understanding... and what is it pointing to?

 

Interested how negative matter can be created continuously. That may play a huge factor in what causes the universe to expand. I like to think of the universe as a sphere that expands. That topic is definitely out of my current level of knowledge. I'm interested to research more

 

6 minutes ago, universe said:

@Roman Edouard I meant space in the universe. As in night sky. You can point to any black point in the night sky and zoom in - boom stars everywhere!

Ah, I understand what you mean now. This is going to take quite some brain power for me to explain properly. Imagine that you are looking in space with a super functional telescope that hasn't been created yet. You zoom in. You see more stars than before since your eye sight has now been aided. Zoom in again and now you move past the stars that you currently see and you see more. Now keep zooming and now there are no more stars. You've reached the very end and all you see is the color black since you're looking at the one of the sides of the sphere. Spheres don't have sides but there's no other way for me to say that. If you could keep zooming in forever and consistently see more and more stars then you wouldn't see the color black next to any of the visible stars. You'd see the different colors that make up stars. You can't see the individual atoms on your hand but you can see the whole hand since the atoms are super close to each other. 

It's hard to explain things without having telekinesis. I hope you understand where I'm going with this.