Mandatory Military Service

[Self Discovery]

In Finland, military service is a must for all over 18 year olds for usually for 9-12 months, although some people with good luck can get out in 6 months.

My time is coming soon, but it feels bad since ive just got the ball rolling in terms of personal growth, consciousness and lifestyle.

My diet is good, spiritual practises locked in, I got a good grip of my purpose, relationships are deeply fulfilling and I’m feeling more full of life force than ever before. I’m ready to dominate life.

But now I have to go into a forest, probably for 9 months with high carb, low protein unhealthy foods with little time to meditate, self inquire and work on my life purpose, handling guns all day and getting yelled at by some stage blue sergent. 

It’s not that i dont want discipline; im actually a very disciplined guy naturally. Honestly I don’t need an army guy yelling at me to stand up straight.

The other option is community service, which would be 12 months. This would surely be boring as hell, but atleast I could work on my self and maintain my current badass lifestyle.

What would you guys do? 

 

 

[Kensho]

In Greece it's the same without the option for community service (in fact, there is an option, jail). People's opinion about the army is mostly negative to very negative. I don't know what exactly would the community service be, but if there was that option here, a big percentage of men would choose the community service. 

[Salvijus]

Lol. I was asked to go army this year in January. I just ignored them

Nothing happened.

If I were you tho. I'd go to army. There're many lessons to learn from living with retards. You'll have to learn to live in harmony with all kinds of crazy people. It's a good opportunity for you to grow.

Also I would prepare myself, my body and my mind with this practice. It will give you the necessary balance to go throw that experience with ease and adventure rather then being crushed by that experience.

I'm sure there're hatha Yoga programs in Finland.  And you have time until september to prepare

Good luck

Edited December 22, 2018 by Salvijus

[Jeff Zhang]

@Self Discovery better go to the army， just take it as a once-in-a-lifetime experience, don't burn yourself out.  You would learn many things that couldn't learn outside of military.

[CreamCat]

I'd choose the community service because it is more comfortable and comes with more free time.

You might want to spare your children from military conscription by giving them citizenships where there is no military conscription. If you don't plan it now, it would be too late by the time you want to marry.

Edited December 22, 2018 by CreamCat

[Tarzan]

Same in Estonia, I'm about halfway through military service and looking back I would've chosen community service since it atleast pays a minimum wage that I could save once it's done and I would've had more free time to meditate, go to the gym, or spend time on your purpose or relationships. When you're in bootcamp/forest you wouldn't get much privacy nor free time. I have a few good things going for me though - I'm learning to be a paramedic so I will atleast acquire some valuable skills and also I'm saving some money (175 euros a month from soldier support money).

Still, I'm pretty depressed - I don't do formal meditation (just being generally mindful) or go the gym right now (hell, I've gained 8 kilos because I ate healthier and went to the gym 4-5 times per week before). I still read when I can though, I've finished a lot of books. After the paramedic course ends I'll have a lot more time so I'm looking forward to what I can do then. It'll be fine once its over and then I'll just get on with my life and figuring out my life purpose.

In military what you will learn is how to kill people and become cannon fodder. And well, you'll learn how to live with your average peers 24/7 who don't want to be there and who will mostly complain or blow off steam, do random shit (although you might make some good friends aswell). Not really worth the time in my opinion, you can do better things, especially if you have your life going nicely as you sayed it is.

So, that's my perspective.

[Dan Arnautu]

@Self Discovery Take it as a challenge to adapt to new situations and environments. There may also be a lot to learn there, even if it's what not to do. 

It's a bitter medicine. Let it teach you patience. 

[YaNanNallari]

Suomesta kans. I didn't like military service at all and it definitely wasn't the choice for me, so I'd choose community service any day. Even if military shows you a few things, it's not that much in the end if you understand to challenge yourself in life. Of course anyone learns about life when they spend 6 months in agony, but you're also left with very bad emotional habits. You could learn plenty outside of it too. When it comes to learning to not judge, it's not like you always have any time to process those things there.

Pretty much everyone is negatively affected by being shouted at and told to suppress their emotions for 6-12 months. Very often you are not allowed to enjoy what you're doing there.

[SoothedByRain]

Perfect. You'll grow big time. 

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Winter said:

Like the one of not judging. 

Okey I'll correct myself. With stage blue people.

[Hansu]

On 22.12.2018 at 2:20 PM, Jeff Zhang said:

@Self Discovery better go to the army， just take it as a once-in-a-lifetime experience, don't burn yourself out.  You would learn many things that couldn't learn outside of military.

This.

Extreme cold, extreme fatigue and months in forest give you some perspective on how the mind works under extreme pressure.

On top of that, army is a great way to build gratitude. Ever since I finished my training I have been able to feel gratitude just from consciously looking at an object.

You could take community service, but thats quaranteed 12 months. If you talk to army officers assertively, you'll be most likely serving only 6 months. Just threaten them to switch to community service if you are assigned to position longer than 6 months, and you will get a 6 months position.

 

[CreamCat]

To be honest, most people cannot learn much from army. Expecting average men to grow spiritually in army is like expecting a meditation beginner to grow a lot by isolating oneself in a mountain and meditating all day for a year or two.

Army is not designed for growth. It is designed for killing enemies. A company is not designed for growth. It is designed to benefit the management and the shareholders. I see very little correlation between military conscription and growth.

If you want growth, find or create an environment conducive to growth.

Edited December 23, 2018 by CreamCat

[CreamCat]

31 minutes ago, Hansu said:

Extreme cold, extreme fatigue and months in forest

Most conscripts would not endure extreme environments because nobody would do it for free. Extreme environments are usually reserved for special forces.

[CreamCat]

36 minutes ago, Hansu said:

how the mind works under extreme pressure.

If you don't know how to utilize extreme pressure for growth, you are not going to grow. That's why extreme environments are not for most people. Look at world war veterans. Many suffered PTSD without experiencing growth.

Leo Gura recommends slow takeoff for most people.

Edited December 23, 2018 by CreamCat

[Hansu]

@CreamCat

Well, what I meant with extreme conditions is conditions compared to the conditions we go through in our moden lives.

My claim that you learn secrets of your mind in exteme conditions is based on my own, and experience of others. I dont have proof of it but I simply know and remember my experiences which I endured through my army training, and which I still remember today. Especially the fact that in army you create bonds with the most unlikely people, which I believe to help developing acceptance.

My friends rank is "alikersantti" which is the lowest officer rank in army. He told me that one day he found new capacities in his capabilities his body and mind had. This experience came as they first navigated towards their destination in -20c weather for 8 hours, then crossed 5 meters wide running river (Naked of course, clothes sealed in waterproof bag) and built their tent. The way he described the journey sounded like mindfulness practise. He probably have never even heard of mindfulness. He described that particular day as emotionally agonizing, mind dulling walk in which the only reason he didnt complain was that he knew it would just make the journey worse for him and his brothers. He endured the pain out of respect, and out of the knowledge that they all were in the same situation. He described how slowly he began to accept the situation and just march forwards, he even described how his mind went blank few times during the march.

He told me how he would never forget that after all that pain, tiredness, cold, agony, lighting up their fireplace in the tent and slipping into the sleeping bag made him happier than he could describe. He told me he would never go through that day again, but he would never erase it from his memory either. He told me how he learned new strenght in his body and mind he never knew existed.

PS: We dont learn to kill so we could kill. We learn to kill so we never have to kill.

 

Edit: Im not saying that everything in army is good and everyone should go to army. There are definitely cons regarding army service, but the pros easily overshadow cons especially if its only 6-12 months. If you are capable, then there is great once in life time experiences to be had in army. If you are emotionally stable and strong enough (Not much needed for Finlands Defence Forces) then you should at least try it out before escaping back to your comfort zone and switching to community service.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Hansu

[Tarzan]

@Hansu

That is a nice experience. The way through these challenges is to learn to beat your ego that wants to complain and just stop doing whatever task is assigned to you. It'll start creating excuses for why you need to stop hurting yourself physically. You beat your ego by learning how to be completely present and be aware of the physical and emotional suffering (thoughts, pain, anger) caused by the assignment.

I chose military service rather than community service because of this, but I think the latter would've benefited me more-so in hindsight.

@Self Discovery

You have to think for yourself. Would you benefit a lot from the challenges that military service could offer ? Or do you think there are even better and more relevant challenges in you life? If the latter then maybe you need extra time to deal with them, and you'll probably have more free time in community service. How do you want to develop youself? Think both scenarios through.

[CreamCat]

10 hours ago, Hansu said:

Im not saying that everything in army is good and everyone should go to army. There are definitely cons regarding army service, but the pros easily overshadow cons especially if its only 6-12 months. If you are capable, then there is great once in life time experiences to be had in army.

Would you voluntarily subject yourself to military service for 6-12 months if you were never asked to join the army?

I wouldn't. The vast majority of people wouldn't either unless they were rendering military service for other benefits like money and career.

I could say the same thing about farming, mining, forced labor, etc, etc, ...

I propose that as we become freer from forced labor, the societies will become more conducive to enlightenment and personal development.

Your friend's experience could have easily become just another distraction if I were him. It would be just another unneccesary pain to me. Pain could easily become a distraction or just another noise in my mind because my ego would react like a crazy monkey.

Some people end up shooting others or commiting suicide in army. Each individual needs a unique path to growth. A better path for me would be to do "do nothing" meditation for one hour a day.

Even if you were lucky to grow spiritually in army, army would do almost nothing for rising through stages of Spiral Dynamics.

Edited December 24, 2018 by CreamCat

[Aakash]

When uncertain i tend to go with a simple solution .... go with your gut instinct and don't back reason if the decision is really difficult to make for you. you will never know whether what you choose was right or wrong unless you actually experience it. 

merry christmas

[Not me]

I’m from Finland too. I think I will go for the civil cervice because I don’t like the type of value system army people have. I also think that way I will have more time to develop myself since I will have to work only like eight hours a day and the rest will be free. If you think about it, the time investment for civil cervice is almost the same as just going to school and you will be able to work on yourself a lot. In army however, basically all of your time will go into it for half a year. Probably not much change to maintain practices that need to be done daily to get good results (like meditation). Also since you daid you are already tough, there is no need to go to the army to ”man up” or something.

Edited December 24, 2018 by Not me

[SaltyMeatballs]

Do it mate. I am 1 month in already with 8 months to go. There will be some free time u can use to read books. On weekends I can go home, so im planning to use that time for personal development. 

Once in a lifetime opportunity, u might regret not doing it. 8-12 months will fly by very quickly because I assume the days will be extremely busy and fast paced like mine.