I see it but I don't get it.

[Barna]

The question that really triggers my curiosity is "What am I?". I mean, it's pretty obvious that I am I, but still, I am never the thing that I think I am, because I'm always the awareness of it. 

This video is pretty good, if you need your curiosity triggered:

 

[SOUL]

11 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

I'm not fully satisfied with my answers. I acknowledge that. That's why I'm asking. There is something more to reality than I think I know. And I want to know.

But by all means, thank you for your beautifully written post, and your innocent laughter. And moreover, thank you for your time.

That's the yearning for answers and more that breeds discontent and can lead to self suffering that I was speaking about. Genuine liberation is freedom from that yearning and is the fulfillment of being at peace with what is in the moment.

[Anton Rogachevski]

1 hour ago, Truth Addict said:

I don't mind not-knowing. But I don't get it.

Don't get what? There's nothing to get.

If you even want to get it in the first place, you haven't surrendered your will fully. It will happen naturally as you keep trying and failing.

"If a fool persists in his folly, he can become wise” 

Only upon deep practice you will find out what not-knowing is. Right now you might think: "huh not-knowing who even cares about knowing", but you actually left many basic assumptions unquestioned without noticing.

 

@Barna This man should totally make an "I'm enlightened" post! He's totally woke.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Anton Rogachevski

[Barna]

8 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

@Barna This man should totally make an "I'm enlightened" post! He's totally woke.

=)) 

[Truth Addict]

1 hour ago, SOUL said:

That's the yearning for answers and more that breeds discontent and can lead to self suffering that I was speaking about. Genuine liberation is freedom from that yearning and is the fulfillment of being at peace with what is in the moment.

You make it feel wrong to ask questions. I'm not after liberation. I'm after the Truth. They might possibly be the same ultimately, but I'm seeking one and not the other. And I don't mind if I suffer for it.

Have a good time.

32 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

Don't get what? There's nothing to get.

If you even want to get it in the first place, you haven't surrendered your will fully. It will happen naturally as you keep trying and failing.

"If a fool persists in his folly, he can become wise” 

Only upon deep practice you will find out what not-knowing is. Right now you might think: "huh not-knowing who even cares about knowing", but you actually left many basic assumptions unquestioned without noticing.

 

@Barna This man should totally make an "I'm enlightened" post! He's totally woke.

Would you please point out to me some of the many basic assumptions that I left without noticing? I'm here to learn.

Maybe I was bad at expressing what I meant.

For you, you might be satisfied with not-knowing.

For me, not-knowing and stopping right there is just sweeping it under the rug. I want to know.

Hope we're on the same page.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Truth Addict

[Anton Rogachevski]

11 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Would you please point out to me some of the many basic assumptions that I left without noticing? I'm here to learn.

Maybe I was bad at expressing what I meant.

These are groundless assumptions, that I would suggest questioning:

"Reality exists. I exist."

"Reality doesn't exist. I don't exist."

"There is existence."

"There is truth, and it can be found out."

"There's something to 'get'. Or 'someone' to get it."

"There is something more to reality than I think I know."

"Truth is what is."

"Truth is the present moment."

"Zero mystical experiences so far" How do you know you are not having one right now?

 

How do you know all these things? Why are you so sure? Being sure is never a good sign, it means you've bought into your own beliefs.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Anton Rogachevski

[Truth Addict]

3 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

These are groundless assumptions, that I would suggest questioning:

"Reality exists. I exist."

"Reality doesn't exist. I don't exist."

"There is existence."

"There is truth, and it can be found out."

"There's something to 'get'. Or 'someone' to get it."

"There is something more to reality than I think I know."

"Truth is what is."

"Truth is the present moment."

"Zero mystical experiences so far" How do you know you are not having one right now?

 

How do you know all these things? Why are you so sure? Being sure is never a good sign, it means you've bought into your own beliefs.

Lol!

So, I just need to shut up and that's it.

The thing that you're questioning me for doing is the very same thing that you're doing.

There's no point of me doubting every belief here. I do that on a specific time on my own.

I'm here to communicate ideas with you and others. And I'm not sure there are other ways to do that.

I think I get what you're pointing me to. I also think you have to make a clear distinction between being skeptical and being practical.

[Forestluv]

@Truth Addict In your original post, notice how it is a story about “me”.  . . “I am this . . . “. “I am that. . “.

To me, there seems to be identification with this character. It can be quite difficult to de-identify with the personality dynamic and a lifetime of mental conditioning. This is one reason psychedelics can be so powerful. They can completely dissolve the story, the timeline and conditioned “rational” thinking. 

There are other practices that can be effective, such as breathing meditation and labeling thoughts and coming to rest in the “I am”. Yet, it can take time. 

Ime, getting immersed in thoughts and concepts isn’t particularly helpful and can be counter-productive.

And be aware that everyone here is at a different maturity stage and we are all working through delusions in our way, including myself.

[Anton Rogachevski]

@Truth Addict  I tried my best at being challenging. Sorry if it didn't help. I think it's best to remind these points, I wouldn't mind if someone did the same for me. Why? Because raising great doubt is key to this work. We're in this together.

Your effort is sincere, and you must keep at it, and reach the limit of knowing for yourself, only then you will be satisfied.

I don't know of any way more practical and direct than this. But it takes time to realise it, since the mind is distorting everything it sees or hears to its own agenda. (confirmation bias)

Edited December 22, 2018 by Anton Rogachevski

[ground]

10 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

But I don't know what the Truth is existentially. And I want to know.

That nicely describes your problem. What? 1. your belief in 'Truth' 2. your wanting to know what can't be known 3. your dissatisfaction with not knowing

[TheAvatarState]

14 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

What is your advice ? What should I do? Is it only time that I need?

Time is a strange beast. It'll enslave you. If you're really interested in Truth, then the illusion of time can't be something to put your hopes on. That's what everyone else does. "Give it more time, it'll work itself out." "Give a single cell billions of years of time, it'll turn into present-day nature." When has time EVER been on your side? Time is the only thing we don't have.

Why would you trust in time if time is an illusion? It sounds like your metaphysics is still grounded in materialism (there are more subtle forms of it). The perspective that "change = distance divided by time" is useful for physics and modeling, but in your own life, you've recognized that all you have is the present moment. Hmmm, how do we make sense of this? From the conscious, present awareness that you are, what does "change" really mean? Is every single cell in your body not changing in every moment? And yet, does the background presence that you are ever change? What is change? How does that relate to your current understanding, and how could that relate to nonduality? How do you bring about change in your own life? And if you're inclined to say "well I need a goal and some time" then ponder whether there's a more direct path or understanding to be had.

14 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

Okay, the Truth is what is. Synonymously, the Truth is the present moment, whatever the content is.

So what? What is so special about this? What is so spiritual about it? And how does it match with God, Nothingness etc..?

You may have many misconceptions about what spirituality really is. I highly recommend watching Leo's video on What is Spirituality. But ask yourself: What is spirituality? Is spirituality about meeting some other celestial beings? Woo-woo stuff? Or is it about knowing one's own spirit or self? What could be a higher calling than that. to truly know thyself?

Any time you reach to grab Truth with your mind, you instantly take two steps back. Try to understand why this is always the case; it's more certain than the laws of physics. Then become directly conscious of how this happens in real time.

Ask yourself: Am I aware? Did you need to think to come up with the answer? It's not a trick question. It's as direct as can be. If you had to think about the answer, then that's the problem right there. Awareness comes prior to thinking, reasoning, seeing, tasting, touching, feeling, emotions, everything. If you can truly understand and experience this, then that's as pure of a spiritual/mystical experience as you will ever get.

If really hope I didn't just confuse you more, lol. Laugh. Love. Live. What more could you possible want? There seems to be an egoic longing within you still. Try to locate what that is. And don't attack it. Genuinely try to understand it. Every facet, every angle. Love it. Get to know yourself before you even begin to transcend.  

[non_nothing]

21 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

Okay, the Truth is what is. Synonymously, the Truth is the present moment, whatever the content is.

So what? What is so special about this? What is so spiritual about it? And how does it match with God, Nothingness etc..?

I'm a pretty decent human being, and I care about the Truth.

I understand that 'subject-object' duality is just an assumption and it must collapse, I don't suffer anymore (90% of the time), I enjoy life more, I go out in nature A LOT! I care a little about the dream character, and I don't really have much desires. I enjoy being alone.

I still have some addictions, but they're working their selves out, and I believe they're going to end soon. Insight: addiction is just a way (better put: natural mechanism) of maintaining survival. I could get angry or sad rarely and it ends so fast. I'm comfortable with ego backlashes as I notice them happening every now and then.

I don't view the so-called 'bad emotions' as bad anymore. Rather, I find them necessary.

I'm an introvert, and I'm comfortable with that. And I could indulge myself into low consciousness talks if I felt like it, which is a cool new feature I discovered recently, I became a pretty laid-back guy recently.

I mean, yes, the magic of life, I glimpse it. The sight and hearing and all that, how's it possible?! Amazing! Wonderful!

I still have some doubts about death and the afterlife.

Zero mystical experiences so far, and psychedelics are not on my radar.

I feel like there's a lot more for me to learn, and I don't feel fully satisfied with my metaphysics yet. But I know I'm on the right path.

You and other enlightenment people talk about 'nothingness, void, emptiness, etc..' which is something I can't relate to yet.

What is your advice ? What should I do? Is it only time that I need?

I believe you guys can read between the lines and know exactly what I need to hear. Because you always did!

Love you all ?

And thanks in advance.

It is very important to have that burning desire inside your heart to seek the truth. This is something. Now that being said let's look at what you actually did there with your post.

 

Now I have marked some sections as bold. This is to show you something that I will explain now. Think the bold sections as the inside of the ocean. The non-bold statements are when you take your head out for breathing. It is like you dive into the ocean for your all personal experiences and do whatever you want to do there.

"I am that I am this but I cannot thus I feel..."

 

And when you take your head out from water, you breathe and get the taste of the truth. You see this even is observed and done by you consciously by being aware.

 

It's like you're swimming in the ocean. It is to experience how swimming is. And you desire to take a breathe is what makes you seek the truth. Actually it's been all there done by you. You are swimming. Diving into ocean and taking the breathe by being aware Thank you

[Anton Rogachevski]

"When we achieve that, there will be no desire or thought of any sort. So long as one desires liberation, so long, you may take it, one is in bondage."

"Realisation is nothing to be gained afresh; it is already there. All that is necessary is to get rid of the thought ‘I have not realised’.
Stillness or peace is realisation. There is no moment when the Self is not. So long as there is doubt or the feeling of non-realisation, the attempt should be made to rid oneself of these thoughts. They are due to the identification of the Self with the not-Self. When the not-Self disappears, the Self alone remains. To make room, it is enough that objects be removed. Room is not brought in from elsewhere."

Ramana Maharshi

Edited December 22, 2018 by Anton Rogachevski

[Jack River]

Thought loves to achieve, arrive, become (in time). 

Thoughts pursuit to “achieve that” (desire/effort) extinguishes the possibility of enlightening what-is (seeing clearly). 

As long as we are solely interested in “that” we will ignore “the this” (what is). 

As long as we ignore the truth of what’s immediately in front of us (the fact) then to see what is beyond (the abstraction) will be imprecise-incomplete. 

The known/knower(time) will then obviously obstruct and continue to cast its own shadow over the beauty of the timeless unknown. 

Do we see that the motive based on reward and punishment ultimately determines the possibility to look at what is?

And if we are unable to look at without distortion the what-is of self/thought/time, then how is there a looking at the what is of Truth? 

As in, are we here to seek pleasure and avoid pain or are we here to investigate what is without that distortion? 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Jack River

[SOUL]

20 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

You make it feel wrong to ask questions. I'm not after liberation. I'm after the Truth. They might possibly be the same ultimately, but I'm seeking one and not the other. And I don't mind if I suffer for it.

I simply explained the way yearning contributes to self suffering, it's not about wrong or right. That's coming from your own desire to know the 'truth' creating your suffering by causing you to 'feel' like it's 'wrong'. I didn't say it was wrong, it is what it is.

The concept of capital 'T' truth is a fabricated illusion of a dualism mindset which the ego uses to justify it's identity through knowing it.

There just is what is and there is no what it isn't because... it isn't.

 

[Aaron p]

@Truth Addict you need self enquiry. Saying anything more, at this point, will just confuse you. 

I believe you have created plenty of ideologies regarding spirituality, but beliefs and understanding are counter productive. You have to meditate and do self enquiry. Otherwise you'll spend your entire life gaining understanding of enlightenment as opposed to actually getting enlightened. 

You want me to read between the lines and tell you what you need? Self enquiry. Self enquiry. Self enquiry.

If you do self enquiry and drop your beliefs about spirituality, you'll get it. If you put your focus on anything else (especially "spiritual" stuff) you'll fuck yourself over and not move towards enlightenment. Do not try to understand anything...just do self enquiry and meditation...learn how to do it good

[Hellspeed]

On 21.12.2018 at 3:33 PM, Truth Addict said:

Okay, the Truth is what is. Synonymously, the Truth is the present moment, whatever the content is.

So what? What is so special about this? What is so spiritual about it? And how does it match with God, Nothingness etc..?

I'm a pretty decent human being, and I care about the Truth.

I understand that 'subject-object' duality is just an assumption and it must collapse, I don't suffer anymore (90% of the time), I enjoy life more, I go out in nature A LOT! I care a little about the dream character, and I don't really have much desires. I enjoy being alone.

I still have some addictions, but they're working their selves out, and I believe they're going to end soon. Insight: addiction is just a way (better put: natural mechanism) of maintaining survival. I could get angry or sad rarely and it ends so fast. I'm comfortable with ego backlashes as I notice them happening every now and then.

I don't view the so-called 'bad emotions' as bad anymore. Rather, I find them necessary.

I'm an introvert, and I'm comfortable with that. And I could indulge myself into low consciousness talks if I felt like it, which is a cool new feature I discovered recently, I became a pretty laid-back guy recently.

I mean, yes, the magic of life, I glimpse it. The sight and hearing and all that, how's it possible?! Amazing! Wonderful!

I still have some doubts about death and the afterlife.

Zero mystical experiences so far, and psychedelics are not on my radar.

I feel like there's a lot more for me to learn, and I don't feel fully satisfied with my metaphysics yet. But I know I'm on the right path.

You and other enlightenment people talk about 'nothingness, void, emptiness, etc..' which is something I can't relate to yet.

What is your advice ? What should I do? Is it only time that I need?

I believe you guys can read between the lines and know exactly what I need to hear. Because you always did!

Love you all ?

And thanks in advance.

The point is becoming into being by discovering the Truth. Discovering your inner radar, the inner connection with everything, sis something beyond what you can read, one has to discover this, experience this. 

[EternalForest]

@Truth Addict I'm in the same boat. I'm not necessarily against a strict meditation regimen, but when I see the strict Zen groups I see more tension and dogma than spirituality. And as far as psychedelics, my intuition tells me that they will spoil everything for me. I'll glimpse the truth and then be in misery for 40 years until I get there. And who's to say that that psychedelic glance was even the truth at all, but rather a unique effect of the psychedelic and something I'll never be able to replicate naturally? My approach to spirituality is all natural; natural, independent insights without any outside dogma or drugs.

[Anton Rogachevski]

@EternalForest Please be mindful of projection and judgment about zen. Even if it was true, there are still invaluable lessons to be taken from such a rich, rational and highly spiritual tradition.

The zen teachings of Bodhidharma, one of the best books on enlightenment, if not the best.

Also try not to assume things about psychedelics without trying first. It's an amazing tool, very practical and deeply therapeutic.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Anton Rogachevski

[ground]

18 hours ago, non_nothing said:

It is very important to have that burning desire inside your heart to seek the truth. ...

That's actually cultivating the deceptive view of true 'I'-'my'-'mine' and trying to escape its truthlessness.

Edited December 23, 2018 by ground