My Thoughts On "enlightenment"

[TTGARLAND]

https://medium.com/@GarlandTravis/what-is-enlightenment-674088d2f361#.z3uj1kohq

[charlie2dogs]

Would you mind if i ask you, why you posted this article. 

Thoughts, feelings, and opinions about enlightenment is the fictitious identity attempting to rationalize enlightenment based on programing and a belief system.

This isn't a criticism but rather an observation and something that could help you at some point.

[Truth]

1 hour ago, charlie2dogs said:

Would you mind if i ask you, why you posted this article. 

Thoughts, feelings, and opinions about enlightenment is the fictitious identity attempting to rationalize enlightenment based on programing and a belief system.

This isn't a criticism but rather an observation and something that could help you at some point.

That's only a trap for people with no awareness. There's a vast difference in being aware of it as just a belief and actually being identified with the belief. You can still give your opinions knowing its just another belief, if no one gave their opinions on enlightenment, no one would know about enlightenment or they'd have to find out the really hard way.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Truth

[charlie2dogs]

10 hours ago, Truth said:

That's only a trap for people with no awareness. There's a vast difference in being aware of it as just a belief and actually being identified with the belief. You can still give your opinions knowing its just another belief, if no one gave their opinions on enlightenment, no one would know about enlightenment or they'd have to find out the really hard way.

the only way anyone is enlightened is by the really hard way,  because of the rationalization and intellectualization  about spirituality most will end up being in a state of confusion for many years remaining trapped, most unlearned people  take hold of the belief and opinions of others and form beliefs for themselves.  Beliefs are never real, they are nothing more than an assumption of knowledge, but leads to more  entrapment, an opinions can do the same thing, for those functioning from the identity. In my own life i have waded through beliefs, opinions, programing, and it wasnt easy, listening to the opinions and beliefs of others didnt help me until i stopped listening and did it the hard way,

I support Leo's work here, have said so several times, but i have noticed that in a short period of time there are about 2800 topics, so i have to wonder if it is becoming nothing more than a social network rather than a place to gain knowledge and possibly some experience in self realization.  If people were taking seriously what leo is attempting to do here, there would be more listening, and contemplating of the real issues regarding self realization than chatting about petty things, and yes i know that petty things are important to the identity and ego because it helps to remain in a state of denial of where most really are with things.  There is no easy way to self realization I have over 40 years invested in it just that i know of in this lifetime.   It isnt easy talking about this subject in a public forum because you have to try and use language that those who function from the identity will understand, and at the same time you have some who think they have achieved some level of self realization that want to pick it apart rather than try to understand the underlying truths that have have been learned the hard way by many over time. There are no levels to self realization you are or you ain't.  There was a writing that said, straight is the gate and narrow is the way that leads to life (liberation) and few there be that find it.  That is one of the truest statement you will ever hear, the way has been muddied until most spend a lifetime searching through opinions and beliefs thinking they are going someplace but never getting there, and it is because of the way all this information is being rationalized and intellectualized.  The only way to become self realized ( with no exceptions) is a transition from functioning as the fictitious identity to a being of consciousness and you will only know what that is like after the transition occurs, the identity cant know, wont know but will make every attempt to rationalize it to where the identity feels like it has something that it don't.

This isnt a criticism of your statement but rather something for your consideration, programing, belief, and opinion is what is keeping the identity trapped.

[Truth]

1 hour ago, charlie2dogs said:

the only way anyone is enlightened is by the really hard way,  because of the rationalization and intellectualization  about spirituality most will end up being in a state of confusion for many years remaining trapped, most unlearned people  take hold of the belief and opinions of others and form beliefs for themselves.  Beliefs are never real, they are nothing more than an assumption of knowledge, but leads to more  entrapment, an opinions can do the same thing, for those functioning from the identity. In my own life i have waded through beliefs, opinions, programing, and it wasnt easy, listening to the opinions and beliefs of others didnt help me until i stopped listening and did it the hard way,

I support Leo's work here, have said so several times, but i have noticed that in a short period of time there are about 2800 topics, so i have to wonder if it is becoming nothing more than a social network rather than a place to gain knowledge and possibly some experience in self realization.  If people were taking seriously what leo is attempting to do here, there would be more listening, and contemplating of the real issues regarding self realization than chatting about petty things, and yes i know that petty things are important to the identity and ego because it helps to remain in a state of denial of where most really are with things.  There is no easy way to self realization I have over 40 years invested in it just that i know of in this lifetime.   It isnt easy talking about this subject in a public forum because you have to try and use language that those who function from the identity will understand, and at the same time you have some who think they have achieved some level of self realization that want to pick it apart rather than try to understand the underlying truths that have have been learned the hard way by many over time. There are no levels to self realization you are or you ain't.  There was a writing that said, straight is the gate and narrow is the way that leads to life (liberation) and few there be that find it.  That is one of the truest statement you will ever hear, the way has been muddied until most spend a lifetime searching through opinions and beliefs thinking they are going someplace but never getting there, and it is because of the way all this information is being rationalized and intellectualized.  The only way to become self realized ( with no exceptions) is a transition from functioning as the fictitious identity to a being of consciousness and you will only know what that is like after the transition occurs, the identity cant know, wont know but will make every attempt to rationalize it to where the identity feels like it has something that it don't.

This isnt a criticism of your statement but rather something for your consideration, programing, belief, and opinion is what is keeping the identity trapped.

When I say the hard way I meant having key insights or knowledge to even start the journey, not how hard it can be which is the assumption your entire paragraph was made even though you make good points, I mean being exposed to enlightenment in general and doing our best to stay out of fantasy land and maybe shorten the time from decades to years while doing our best of not confusing the map for the territory.

[charlie2dogs]

4 minutes ago, Truth said:

When I say the hard way I meant having key insights or knowledge to even start the journey, not how hard it can be which is the assumption your entire paragraph was made even though you make good points, I mean being exposed to enlightenment in general and doing our best to stay out of fantasy land and maybe shorten the time from decades to years while doing our best of not confusing the map for the territory.

humans have been exposed to those who have put forth teachings about enlightenment for ages now,  is it possible they have been exposed to the wrong kind of teaching, to actually achieve a state of self realization, any good teacher has said that only a few would become enlightened or rather self realized in any given generation, and i agree with that, but my statement about how hard it can be is not an assumption, it comes after over 40 years of work in personal growth work, and finally realizing that all the exposure i got from other humans was a huge mistake, and their ideas, opinions, teachings and philosophies were taking me no where but on a never ending journey with no destination or expectation of arrival.  I then went to the heart of the problem and that was my own consciousness.  In the beginning i soon understood that my beliefs, programing, and warped perception of life would not allow me to be a being of consciousness without being able to be in a space of being without and before the programing, beliefs and warped perceptions to see the reality,  when i understood  that to see reality that i had to be in a space of being before those things and i could do that,  the fictitious identity and ego were no longer in control.  I understand that those who function from the identity would say, ( that is just your opinion). I am not a believer, opinions are worthless, and assumptions are never real.  Existing as consciousness is the real deal, and it can be done while enjoying this play called life.  When i started the (journey) it wasnt because of anyone or any teaching, it was because of an intense desire within myself that drove me to understand who and what i was, how i got here, and what this was all about.  Good luck to you in your own work.

[Truth]

25 minutes ago, charlie2dogs said:

humans have been exposed to those who have put forth teachings about enlightenment for ages now,  is it possible they have been exposed to the wrong kind of teaching, to actually achieve a state of self realization, any good teacher has said that only a few would become enlightened or rather self realized in any given generation, and i agree with that, but my statement about how hard it can be is not an assumption, it comes after over 40 years of work in personal growth work, and finally realizing that all the exposure i got from other humans was a huge mistake, and their ideas, opinions, teachings and philosophies were taking me no where but on a never ending journey with no destination or expectation of arrival.  I then went to the heart of the problem and that was my own consciousness.  In the beginning i soon understood that my beliefs, programing, and warped perception of life would not allow me to be a being of consciousness without being able to be in a space of being without and before the programing, beliefs and warped perceptions to see the reality,  when i understood  that to see reality that i had to be in a space of being before those things and i could do that,  the fictitious identity and ego were no longer in control.  I understand that those who function from the identity would say, ( that is just your opinion). I am not a believer, opinions are worthless, and assumptions are never real.  Existing as consciousness is the real deal, and it can be done while enjoying this play called life.  When i started the (journey) it wasnt because of anyone or any teaching, it was because of an intense desire within myself that drove me to understand who and what i was, how i got here, and what this was all about.  Good luck to you in your own work.

Oops, I meant premise, not assumption. I personally never had any one who knew about anything to do with enlightenment, I stumbled across it. So I know how important it is to get started on this journey. I lacked wisdom or honestly just curiosity in general, which I bet I'm not alone there. Which is why people shouting opinions and beliefs is still important even if its still such because it built that wisdom and curiosity in me which I never really cared or even thought to have about my existential self. 

[abrakamowse]

To long for me to read it completely hehehehe...

[charlie2dogs]

2 hours ago, Truth said:

Oops, I meant premise, not assumption. I personally never had any one who knew about anything to do with enlightenment, I stumbled across it. So I know how important it is to get started on this journey. I lacked wisdom or honestly just curiosity in general, which I bet I'm not alone there. Which is why people shouting opinions and beliefs is still important even if its still such because it built that wisdom and curiosity in me which I never really cared or even thought to have about my existential self. 

I completely understand what you are saying and i appreciate your honesty, and you are not alone, most here are doing the same thing, and yes many shout their opinions and beliefs when they dont have the experience of a thing and i completely understand your feelings about this, i used to have those same feelings,  i used to be a religious fanatic, a newager, i held all the false beliefs, the programing controlled my life completely, my whole sense of life was warped,  all i knew was the identity,  but all of that is like a dream that has passed, i live in reality now, i know where to find it, i gave up beliefs and began to allow consciousness to cleanse itself of the programing and false belief, but all of this came after the transition from human being to become a being of consciousness,  or self realization.  I spent most of my life trying to find that real part of myself and it only happened when I looked deep enough inside of myself and experienced the source of life within my self on deeper and deeper levels, that source of all life is consciousness, it all sounds so unreal to most people, sounds confusing, and i understand, been there, done it, but now i know from experience where liberation exist, what is real and what isnt.  You have started on this journey, and the destination lies within your own being,  it is the kingdom of heaven once possessed.  I have had many people tell me that i confuse them, even though i try my best to relate my own experience in the best way i can, and i know that they wont understand until something happens inside of them but i hope it creates enough curiosity that they begin to look and maybe create some desire to know themselves better. I wish you only the best, Look inside, all the answers that you will ever want or need are there and it will be from the true source, the real you is that source.

[Khin]

On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 1:26 PM, abrakamowse said:

To long for me to read it completely hehehehe...

Yeah, Right..  I just read half to see some ideas.  

[abrakamowse]

5 hours ago, Khin said:

Yeah, Right..  I just read half to see some ideas.  

True, I read a bit more... and this is wrong in my opinion.

"So all we can do is try to better ourselves without hurting others, but sometimes we make mistakes and others get hurt"

Who is the one being hurt? And who is hurting others? That doesn´t exist in reality.