The Role of plain 'physical', 'external' Environment in regulating Growth

[Preetom]

A question hit me all of a sudden while watching Leo's latest Spiral Dynamics application video.

Why is there so much inequality when it comes to just growth(not talking about culture or taste) around the planet?

Why are basically the same biological human beings in such this vast unequal growth in the first place?

You can't answer by just saying that it's because underdeveloped tribes and nations are too attached to their dogma and superstition. But why are they this way in the first place? West was also once religiously dogmatic but they upgraded in secularism, something which a middle eastern country might take 100-200 years more to achieve. 

1) Is this just God's injustice that there will always be huge developmental gaps in growth among tribes in different parts of the planet for variety's sake?

2) Or does things like climate, geology, water they drink, air they breathe, their relationship with sunlight, their skin, flesh, bones and looks, language...I mean all the physical external stuff, regulate a tribe's fate and ability to adapt, grow and change MUCH MORE than we want to acknowledge?

3) Can there be legitimate studies and research correlating physical elements of nature with growth?

Another question popped up while writing this post,

4) Can a particular language be inherently dogmatic and growth retarding(creating tighter paradigm locks) than other languages?

@Leo Gura @Serotoninluv and others, please help me sort this one out 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Preetom

[tsuki]

I'd say that the world is a chaotic system and these are the results of its sensitivity to initial conditions.
It's similar to our cosmological models where random fluctuations of minuscule universe grew into galaxies.

Edited December 20, 2018 by tsuki

[Preetom]

1 minute ago, tsuki said:

I'd say that the world is a chaotic system these are the results of its sensitivity to initial conditions.

So it turns out to be God's will that not everyone or every tribe will start the journey in common plain field...?

[tsuki]

15 minutes ago, Preetom said:

So it turns out to be God's will that not everyone or every tribe will start the journey in common plain field...?

Didn't we? As far as I know we all came from Africa and turned against each other out of our own ignorance.
Why would god (reality) adhere to rules of minds that it manifests? Common plain field is our ignorant notion sentiment.

Edited December 20, 2018 by tsuki

[Preetom]

1 minute ago, tsuki said:

Didn't we? As far as I know we all came from Africa and turned against each other out of our own ignorance.
Why would god (reality) adhere to rules of minds that it manifests?

This is interesting to think about... how about animals?

It seems that no matter which jungle you go to, a particular tribe of a particular animal is always in tuned with natural development. They look different due to where they live, but their growth seems natural. You probably won't find a pride of lions that can't hunt or are subordinate to the Ox tribe (generally speaking).

Why do we humans have to fuck up so much? is it because we are so complex as a system that self-deception and backlash has to be like 1000X more than other biological systems?

[tsuki]

13 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Why do we humans have to fuck up so much? is it because we are so complex as a system that self-deception and backlash has to be like 1000X more than other biological systems?

To fuck up is yet another sentiment of the human mind. I'm not saying that it is an invalid sentiment, as there are better or worse ways to spend your time on this planet. Nonetheless - applying strictly human logic of good and evil to something that we are a manifestation of is unwise at best.

Think of it like this - if you cut your hand with a knife, blood will run down your arm. It's bad.
As you zoom in, a scab starts to build to stop the blood flow. It's good.
As you zoom in, the cells in your bloodstream constantly eat each other and fight. It's bad.
As you zoom out - without the process in your blood, you wouldn't even be alive.

If you stay stuck at the perspective of the mankind - it's obvious that people killing each other is something disharmonious, but harmony and chaos are two sides of the same coin. You can say that god is so perfectly harmonious that it incorporates chaos into its perfection. Or alternatively - god is so chaotic that its chaos is unstable and results in structure. To pick a side and believe that we need to defend against evil is how suffering is born.

Edited December 20, 2018 by tsuki

[Preetom]

16 minutes ago, tsuki said:

To fuck up is yet another sentiment of the human mind. I'm not saying that it is an invalid sentiment, as there are better or worse ways to spend your time on this planet. Nonetheless - applying strictly human logic of good and evil to something that we are a manifestation of is unwise at best.

Think of it like this - if you cut your hand with a knife, blood will run down your arm. It's bad.
As you zoom in, a scab starts to build to stop the blood flow. It's good.
As you zoom in, the cells in your bloodstream constantly eat each other and fight. It's bad.
As you zoom out - without the process in your blood, you wouldn't even be alive.

If you stay stuck at the perspective of the mankind - it's obvious that people killing each other is something disharmonious, but harmony and chaos are two sides of the same coin. You can say that god is so perfectly harmonious that it incorporates chaos into its perfection. Or alternatively - god is so chaotic that its chaos is unstable and results in structure. To pick a side and believe that we need to defend against evil is how suffering is born.

So it seems all this fuss to manipulate, change and grow others on human logic level IS a the driving factor which is creating more gaps and conflicts.

Reminds me of Indian sage Nisargadatta saying that, ''you're intellect is a tiny product of Reality itself. How can you impact Reality with your tiny intellect?''

This has been the recurring advice of pretty much all wisest masters which is basically realizing the Truth and saving your own ass. Almost none of them proposed models and propagandas of how Reality or life on planet should or should not be. On that topic, they are all silent.

It seems growth itself is a human term that perpetuates more issues with each one it solves.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Preetom

[tsuki]

3 minutes ago, Preetom said:

It seems growth itself is a human term that perpetuates more issues with each one it solves.

Yes, to some degree. I think of it like this: all understanding is local.
It's like a linear approximation of non-linear reality. Having a plan and following it is great for some time, but after some point - you have to evaluate its accuracy and be ready to abandon it. If you stick to it for too long, you are bound to suffer.
It is not that understanding and growth are necessarily evil, but our clinging to it past its usefulness make them such. 
This is how Ego ties with intelligence.

All of that being said - just try to not understand things and not grow and observe the immense amount of suffering you will experience.
So, the only way out is to simply understand the operating system you run on and let it do its thing.

[Preetom]

14 minutes ago, tsuki said:

All of that being said - just try to not understand things and not grow and observe the immense amount of suffering you will experience.
So, the only way out is to simply understand the operating system you run on and let it do its thing.

Yeah this brings up the 1st question all over again. Do physical elements impact and regulate a big part of what we consider to be growth or not.

Btw thanks for your insightful posts.

[tsuki]

31 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Btw thanks for your insightful posts.

❤️

31 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Yeah this brings up the 1st question all over again. Do physical elements impact and regulate a big part of what we consider to be growth or not.

Hmm, let's try another way. At first: yes.
Then, after we experience enough suffering and self-reflection - we grow and react to them successfully.
That solves it for a while, but other problems emerge.
We start to notice them because we moved the physical elements out of the way.
We suffer and self-reflect and fix new issues. Then, new problems arise because we made space for them.
Ad nauseam.

BTW. The fact that the thread went full circle is just hilarious given the answers that I presented.
This is my last post here, I promise!

Edited December 20, 2018 by tsuki

[Preetom]

13 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Hmm, let's try another way. At first: yes.
Then, after we experience enough suffering and self-reflection - we grow and react to them.
That solves it for a while, but other problems emerge.
We start to notice them because we moved the physical elements out of the way.
We suffer and self-reflect and fix the new issues. Then, the new problems arise because we made space for them.
Ad nauseam.

BTW. The fact that the thread went full circle is just hilarious given the answers that I presented.
This is my last post here, I promise!

1) To live/move is to fuck up

2) To solve one fuck up is just another name for digging up a new, more complex fuck up

3) I don't know  

[ajasatya]

@Preetom you're projecting personal/relative experiences onto the absolute perspective, as if there was a higher purpose for every individual aspect of Reality.

the attachment to a God kind of entity is deeper than we may think.

[Preetom]

8 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

@Preetom you're projecting personal/relative experiences onto the absolute perspective, as if there was a higher purpose for every individual aspect of Reality.

the attachment to a God kind of entity is deeper than we may think.

I was referring to 'God's will' as a fancy way of expressing randomness without explanation. It's not like I believe in a personal God or something rigorously..