Is love the same as consciousness?

[shamaanitar]

On 20.12.2018 at 0:31 PM, Leo Gura said:

@Alfox The answer to your question requires an enlightenment experience on the question: What is love?

Have it and you shall know. Verbal descriptions will never do it justice.

Agreed, answering with knowledge or language will never answer the question. Perhaps you should ponder what love has lead you to in this life and what that has taught you etc. Not just universally what love is.

Have you ever fallen in love? One cannot properly explain why you meet certain people at certain times, but you are able to recognize your essance with a certain person easier than others. Why is it that the experience of falling in love is similar (much milder ofc) to enlightenment? No. Words. Can. Describe. Either.

[Nahm]

They said “atoms” our whole life. 

It’s love. 

“Forgive them, they know not what they do”

 

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[Shadowraix]

17 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

So, the very basic of existence is struggle and suffering. What does that tell us? That Consciousness is more like evil/hate than love.

How could consciousness unconditionally love if it did not love the parts of itself that expressed struggle and suffering?

With infinite suffering comes infinite pleasure and everything in between and outside it. It unconditionally loves ALL of it. What you are thinking of is conditional love. But see infinity could not happen if God expressed conditional love, it would be rejecting a part of itself.

[Shadowraix]

3 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

@Shadowraix Loving suffering is called sadism. How wonderful God is (not).

Someone truly loving would intervene when something has gone wrong. When there is real suffering.

If a little child plays with a loaded gun, and if the parent loves the child he/she would intervene.

Or if the child would be in pain the parent would intervene and try to relief his/her pain. The parent wouldn't sit there passively and love/enjoy watching the child being in agony.

See now you are projecting what you as an ego would do onto God.

You harbor resistance and negativity to suffering and that is what makes this hard for you to accept.

God unconditionally loves itself. God IS sadism. God IS suffering, God IS murder, God IS rape, God IS pleasure, God IS luck, God IS happiness, God IS laughter, God IS EVERYTHING.

This is what it means to be infinite, to be everything possible. To experience everything possible. You are no better than a murderer. Suffering isn't wrong and isn't bad. That is a projection onto reality. 

When somebody dies it is equivalent to somebody dying in a book yet see we have this detachment that lets us enjoy such stories, but we are no different to God. Loving isn't easy, but at the end of the day all that you hate and reject is you and you either come to terms with that or run away in denial.

Nobody said the implications of oneness were all rainbows and unicorns, thats just half of the story. Infinity cannot be infinity if it cherry picks.God (You) will know what it is like to be infinite and you will experience all the suffering that could possibly be imagined and beyond.

Watch this and let it sink in:

 

Edited December 26, 2018 by Shadowraix

[Ananta]

https://youtu.be/Deq_1lg9Dlo

5min, 15 sec

The end of suffering

Eckhart Tolle

 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2018 by Anna1

[Preetom]

8 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

Life is a struggle for everyone, whether you are aware of it or not.

Why do you think you need to sleep? Because life is a constant struggle, and you need recovering time.

You must work to not die. You must deal with other people. You must eat to not die. You get sick. You get involved in accidents. You get hurt from break ups etc. You must constantly strive for stuff like for example enlightenment etc. so you must do SDS meditation and torture yourself for hours and hours etc. You must struggle to be physically and mentally good looking. You must clean your place where you live. You must clean your body. You must put effort in making your body move to somewhere. You sometimes freeze and sometimes sweat. You must struggle to get a partner or friend and you must struggle to keep him/her. You are sometimes tired, sometimes bored, nervous, anxious, sad etc. etc.

So, the very basic of existence is struggle and suffering. What does that tell us? That Consciousness is more like evil/hate than love.

And I don't think I even need to explain the life of animals. They need to struggle even more. We even eat them, etc.

You can try to deny it all you want, but that's the Truth. 

Yes that's how it is designed so that we preciously get sick and tired of it and wake the fuck up to see that none of this sham has anything to do with us. It's to prevent us from preventing from nesting and making a home in this temporary playground.

Developing this systematic chronic dis-satisfaction for the mundane reality that everyone else seems to conform to in a gullible manner, is one of the recurring and pre-requisites for a true spiritual search to begin most of the time.

 

[Shadowraix]

7 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

@Shadowraix Yawn.

That's just words.

Why use the word "love" in this case? "God loves suffering and misery." The word "love" loses all meaning. 

Seriously, there's no point in using the word "love" here.

Not at all. You just simply have not realized this truth. You still operate under conditional love, but that conditional love derives from unconditional love. When you realize unconditional love you will realize this as the word 'love' as Leo said previously.

[now is forever]

if love is a lake, are we the drop or are we the lake?

[Anton Rogachevski]

1 hour ago, now is forever said:

if love is a lake, are we the drop or are we the lake?

The fish.

[Anton Rogachevski]

1 minute ago, Mikael89 said:

That's duality.

It is when you say it is. I didn't say it.

[now is forever]

@Mikael89 the lake would also be duality. it also doesn’t depend on who says it if it’s duality or not.

Edited December 27, 2018 by now is forever

[Leo Gura]

On 12/23/2018 at 11:31 AM, captainamerica said:

@Leo Gura Can you please explain that statement just a bit more for me? (especially the insights part...)

Any guidance would be much appreciated :-)

There is no such thing as "a reality". Reality is entangled with one's nervous system. Such that every living creature has a different reality. If there is an infinite number of possible ways to configure a nervous system, there are an infinite number of different realities. For example, in some realities the color red does not exist because of how the nervous system is structured. In other realities it is not possible to know that 5+5=10 because of how the nervous system is structured. For example, a donkey cannot realize that 5+5=10. It cannot have that insight. But a human can. And not all humans. Only those with a proper nervous system. A mentally disabled person cannot realize that 5+5=10.

Imagine all the experiences and insights you are unable to have simply because your nervous system does not grant you access to them. Your nervous system is like a filter through which infinity is boiled down to a narrow limited finite set of experiences.

Psychedelics alter your nervous system, allowing you to access experiences and insights that would otherwise be impossible. Which is why they're so uniquely useful for metaphysical work.

But independent of all the above, there is the Absolute Truth, which you have access to if you are normal healthy human being.

[Forestluv]

On 12/26/2018 at 1:30 PM, Mikael89 said:

Loving suffering is called sadism. How wonderful God is (not).

Someone truly loving would intervene when something has gone wrong. When there is real suffering.

If a little child plays with a loaded gun, and if the parent loves the child he/she would intervene.

Or if the child would be in pain the parent would intervene and try to relief his/her pain. The parent wouldn't sit there passively and love/enjoy watching the child being in agony.

That’s true in a relative context. That is relative love, which can be beautiful.

That relative, conditional love can expand. What if that parent’s love for their child expanded to include their entire family? And then expanded to include all abused children. And then suffering refugees, then suffering animals, then people with psychoses, then suffering criminals, then all of humanity. 

What if that love expanded to include the entire universe?

[lmfao]

@now is forever @Leo Gura

(for some reason I can't get rid of the @Leo on mobile)

 

On 21/12/2018 at 11:39 PM, now is forever said:

@lmfao an autistic “brain” type is lacking on mirror neurons, as one theory - actually i read something about experiments with oxitocyn to increase the mirror neuron capacity recently, or was it growth? but you are talking about conciousness not the L word are you? so the sensitivity to what do you want to test? 

i don’t think autistic people are not able to love they just love differently and they just don’t really recognize the difference between a person and numbers (cliche) for example.

 

so how do you want to induce love experience? showing pictures of people and numbers? 

 

did no one ever do that before?

Quite interesting what you said about mirror neurons. I agree with you that autistic people don't lack love. 

My post was following on from what Leo said about some people, e.g maybe Peter Ralston maybe in the context of "Love" , having a reduced capacity to accessing certain "dimensions of reality". The existence of "Love" as a dimension of experience is fuzzy and hard to point to, as you've mentioned. I was just trying to use Love as an arbitrarily chosen example dimension, although it was a bad choice. 

So for now, let's forget about "Love" as a dimension and just imagine that there are other dimensions though. Despite the fact that I cannot give a concrete example for the name of one of the dimensions of measurement in the reductionist model I made up earlier I still think that the model just allows me to clearly articulate my thoughts.

The main point I was trying to focus on can be demonstrated in this hypothetical situation using the model I made up earlier. Person X has a score of  "3" in one dimension whilst Person Y has a score of "2". Let's assume this difference is due to there being different nervous systems between the two people. What I'm wondering is if the fact that Person Y has a lower sensitivity in this dimension than Person X means that it is likely they Person Y "makes up" for this "disadvantage" by having a higher score than Person X in a different dimension of measurement. 

To be precise: if we imagine the set of all possible ways in which person Y's nervous system is different from Person X I wonder whether more than 50% of these possible ways would result in Person Y compensating for the deficiency through an increased score in another dimension.

I was using autism as an arbitrary example of a different brain type to say that there are probably gonna be some dimensions of measurement they are lower in, but it is probable there are other dimensions they are higher in to compensate for this fact. 

 

On 22/12/2018 at 10:36 PM, Anton Rogachevski said:

 

 

On 21/12/2018 at 11:39 PM, now is forever said:

@lmfao 

and i wonder if it then would only be the brain function you would measure or what else on the body? for example how would you measure what body functions are involved - and you would need to define love very limited, so you could compare it and you would need to define conciousness, too. as a function... 

the question is always a systemic one, also one of encoding - although there are energy knots, if you want to find something like emotion or love or conciousness or the soul in a person, good luck!

Yeah the actual knitty gritty details of such a model are absurd. The things it wants to measure are impossible to determine the identity of and its also impossible to quantify them. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by lmfao

[now is forever]

6 hours ago, lmfao said:

 

@now is forever @Leo Gura

(for some reason I can't get rid of the @Leo on mobile)

 

maybe you used the @ to often, now it’s sticking like glue? there where posts from you with now is forever @ now is forever (less confusing but still confusing)

don‘t know about love as a dimension - yes, why not if time is a dimension love certainly would be one, too. given the rice experiment...it would not be only one experiencable by humans but could be a real dimension. but then hate would have a dimension too. neglection would have a dimension (my plants don’t like that)

about your experiment, how who compensates for what, don’t know or if it even is compensation - sounds plausible in a way, though. but for example if it is nervousness it certainly is a dimension of nervousness triggered by maybe a dimension of criticism before or a dimension of being shy? i mean psychology uses to just subtract or controll these dimensions if it’s not wished for the outcome of the experiment, there is no other way in quantifying them. so it would be possible to say these would be other dimensions to measure at the same time - the nervousness dimension then would be blocking the love dimension, if the hypothesis is right.

or did you mean the compensation in another dimension maybe really different dimensions like the dimensions for example one has a high score in love and another one in time?

or are they even separate maybe it’s about love/time.

Edited December 28, 2018 by now is forever

[now is forever]

3 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

Yes, God is everything. Including hate, fear, and love. Love is just another thing for it.

That's why it's better to just call it for Consciousness, and not project human attributes like for example love on it and say that Consciousness is love. Love is one aspect of Consciousness, yes, but there are many more too, like you said.

it doesn’t matter how you call it - if you call it anything you are attributing it. if you neglect it as what it is you are just suffering more. accept it - conciousness is love.

[Aakash]

I believe the stigma surrounding the word love is often confusing. Love is just a word, with an assosicated meaning of feeling , whether its unconditional or conditional is totally dependant on your state of consciousness. Therefore love can be classified as consciousness however for educational purposes it can be denounced as love to entail it in a feature of oneness. so consciousness and love are synonymous. 

But you must investigate further. 

[now is forever]

@Mikael89 there is no fantasy except the fantasy you live by. love/conciousness is like cleaning, you sometimes don‘t reach the darkest spots - but it certainly is worth reaching out for them. if you don’t want to invest love/time ok, don’t try. just give up and surrender to the content of conciousness, but don’t conflate both.

[Consilience]

@Mikael89 how would you even know this? Have you reached the deepest states of non-dual consciousness? Genuinely curious 

[Consilience]

6 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Nope, I haven't. Because it's common sense.

That’s an assumption though. How could you know what non-dual consciousness is like unless you’ve had the direct experience? 

 

Maybe love is just the best word to describe the state itself, rather than being a literal definition. Idk.