EU is banning single-use plastic ?

[Zweistein]

https://m.dw.com/en/eu-reaches-agreement-on-single-use-plastic-ban/a-46797494

Hehe, sorry - I'm so excited, I had to share ??

[tsuki]

@Zweistein Can you share your thoughts on why is it a good idea to ban single use plastics?

[Outer]

Just now, tsuki said:

@Zweistein Can you share your thoughts on why is it a good idea to ban single use plastics?

To counter the plastics ending up in the oceans, nature, and other places, because they don't degrade?

[tsuki]

4 minutes ago, Outer said:

To counter the plastics ending up in the oceans, nature, and other places, because they don't degrade?

How about enforcing them to be degradable instead? That would also solve the problem you're mentioning.
Note that I am not denying the importance of preserving the environment. I am asking why banning is a sustainable solution.

I have an intuition that it isn't. You can't just ban things that industry is addicted to and expect it to comply.

Edited December 19, 2018 by tsuki

[now is forever]

to ban single use plastic is a good idea because of several factors. first of all the energy used to produce one time use only packaging will fall away - it also is a saving on focile resources. one time used plastic bags can be recicled as they are usually made of thermoplastic but we all know if, it’s downcycling. and in reality they mostly get burned or in a lot of cases in europe land somewhere in nature. (think alone of waste mafia)

of course there will be more paper used instead but i think in addition to the banning, people will think about alternatives as paper bags are also more expensive than plastic.

biodegradable plastic is kind of an alternative but also very controversialy discussed as it is made of plant based agrar resources. what stands in competition to food - there is a danger of monoculture and it also might enforce more genetic manipulation as it is non food. we all know about how genetic manipulated plant material spreads through thin air alone. also combustion is critical as those plastic bags combust more slowly than other components.

overall if it is accompanied by the right campaigns, people will be forced to discuss and rethink their habits and a lot will start to bring their own bags or backpacks - it will also have the effect that recicling enters everyday awareness much more and can be a little push to go into more green thinking in general.

Edited December 19, 2018 by now is forever

[Zweistein]

@tsuki degradable plastic comes with issues, too - look at these articles for example:
http://zerowastemontenegro.me/biodegradable-plastic-bags
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/registre/docs_autres_institutions/commission_europeenne/com/2013/0123/COM_COM(2013)0123_EN.pdf

 

22 minutes ago, Outer said:

To counter the plastics ending up in the oceans, nature, and other places, because they don't degrade?

Yep. If anyone needs more scientific evidence, here you go:

Geyer, R., Jambeck, J.R. & Law, K.L., 2017. Production, use, and fate of all plastics ever made. Science  Advances, 3(7),   pp.25–29. Available at:  http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/7/e1700782

Rochman, C.M. et al., 2013. Policy: Classify plastic waste as hazardous. Nature, 494 (7436), pp.169–171.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235620600_Policy_Classify_plastic_waste_as_hazardous

Even the plastic manufactorers in Europe understand the problem, see: https://www.plasticseurope.org/en

"PlasticsEurope is a leading pan-European association and represents plastics manufacturers active in the European plastics industry. The plastics industry in Europe is a vibrant sector that helps improve the quality of life by enabling innovation, facilitating resource efficiency and enhancing climate protection."

And here is their reaction:

https://www.plasticseurope.org/en/newsroom/press-releases/plasticseurope-welcomes-ecs-plastics-strategy

 

[Leo Gura]

Post-modernist communist hippies taking away our freedom to pollute!

[Aquarius]

Omg that's so amazing!!!!!!!!

[Aquarius]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Post-modernist communist hippies taking away our freedom to pollute!

Woah... That was harsh. Lol, I love your style Leo. You're not wrong. 

[Zweistein]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Post-modernist communist hippies taking away our freedom to pollute!

Wait until it swaps over to the US 

Plastic straws are already being banned in the US, too - aren't they?

[now is forever]

if europe get‘s cool tech green, will the us get very envious? maybe it works like with peer pressure!

we have the fancier bags!

[Zweistein]

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2018/07/news-how-plastic-straw-bans-work/

@Leo Gura I will keep polluting "your" forum with post-modernist communist hippie stuff until I get banned... 

[Zweistein]

4 minutes ago, now is forever said:

if europe get‘s cool tech green, will the us get very envious? maybe it works like with peer pressure!

we have the fancier bags!

Well, we have to be very very careful about the bag issue actually! A danish study showed that cotton bags have to be used at least 20,000 times to make up for the energy that is used for making it: https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-73-4.pdf (you need to scroll a bit to get to the english translation of the study).

The next issue is clothes really!!! 

[tsuki]

29 minutes ago, Zweistein said:

@tsuki degradable plastic comes with issues, too - look at these articles for example:
http://zerowastemontenegro.me/biodegradable-plastic-bags
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/registre/docs_autres_institutions/commission_europeenne/com/2013/0123/COM_COM(2013)0123_EN.pdf

That is very insightful, thank you.

[now is forever]

9 minutes ago, Zweistein said:

Well, we have to be very very careful about the bag issue actually! A danish study showed that cotton bags have to be used at least 20,000 times to make up for the energy that is used for making it: https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-73-4.pdf (you need to scroll a bit to get to the english translation of the study).

The next issue is clothes really!!! 

i‘ll have a look how long it takes until the cotton bag makes up for not taking plastic bags - that’s in that case maybe more relevant. as we are not going to zero waste but to less useles waste. it is more saving on unnecessary waste.

of course textile recicling is a topic, too. 

@Zweistein you have such a green thumb you would let us go naked.

[Leo Gura]

We are going to pass the 28th Constitutional Amendment:

"The right to eat with plastic fork shall not be abridged!"

And Amendment 29:

"Fuck you hippies, go live in Venezuela."

[Aquarius]

24 minutes ago, Zweistein said:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2018/07/news-how-plastic-straw-bans-work/

@Leo Gura I will keep polluting "your" forum with post-modernist communist hippie stuff until I get banned... 

Haha you're a cool person. <3 

Careful with the guidelines tho.  

Edited December 19, 2018 by Aquarius

[Zweistein]

53 minutes ago, Aquarius said:

Careful with the guidelines tho.  

I know  I was just kidding ;-) I promised myself to minimize my pollution in effective altruistic ways, so I will do it here, too.
 

57 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

We are going to pass the 28th Constitutional Amendment:

"The right to eat with plastic fork shall not be abridged!"

As long as it's BPA-free ;-)

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/16/eu-moves-to-restrict-hormone-disrupting-chemical-found-in-plastics

 

[now is forever]

3 hours ago, Zweistein said:

https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-73-4.pdf (you need to scroll a bit to get to the english translation of the study).

The next issue is clothes really!!! 

checked the link and it’s a lot of data, but did you realize one variable of the comparison was, they presupposed every plastic bag would be reused as waste bag and then compared it with the cotton bag. 

and if we talk about fashion, if the backpack or cotton bag is fashion - then it’s an additional saving in the production of pu fake leather bags. and you safe money because you don’t need to pay for the extra LV sign, if i would even know what it stands for. 

it‘s some kind of weird sign cult.

somee research brought a little bit of light:

and maybe this one could also be a hint - it’s a fruit facial.

Edited December 19, 2018 by now is forever

[Michael569]

3 hours ago, now is forever said:

if europe get‘s cool tech green, will the us get very envious? maybe it works like with peer pressure!

we have the fancier bags!

giant chunk of Europe is still stuck in Blue and doesn't give a rat's ass about plastics, recycling or plastic straws