Why is there not nothing?

[WindInTheLeaf]

@TheAvatarState hehe, I managed to do exactly what I was advocating against, and see how little you got out of my reply because of it. No worries, there were no hard feelings involved just silly old me trying to be wise.

@LastThursday seems like a tougher question to me, as it leaves no way out for the ego. But perhaps this is exactly why it is a stronger question.  Put someone in a white room with that question playing from the speakers over and over till he breaks. Perhaps give him psychedelics to open up his mind so that whatever stands in the way will pour out quicker.  

[TheAvatarState]

@LastThursday Yes, you can prove to yourself that reality is fundamentally a strange loop. All the evidence is right in your direct experience. However, that doesn't answer the question, "Why is there awareness?" Which fundamentally is OP's question. Just because you can think logically and arrive at an inconsistency, doesn't mean the mind can fully understand or grasp what's going on. Perhaps I'm missing something here?

[TheAvatarState]

@WindInTheLeaf No offense, but it didn't look wise . I was struggling to figure out what you meant. Unless you want to be misunderstood, strive for simplicity.

[WindInTheLeaf]

1 hour ago, TheAvatarState said:

Yes, I'm aware that the ego mind is a harmonic oscillator, just like Leo described in his "Understanding Ego Backlash" video. There's nothing easy about this, if it were, we'd all have a nondual perspective. All perspectives are valid, all have slivers of Truth, but not all perspectives are equal. There IS something higher. The only requirement is an radically open mind.

A harmonic oscillator sure sounds rather fancy, but I love the way it sounds. What is can never be described, but how to get to this realization is a question with a thousand answers. One way is not feeding the wheel with more nonsense. THis is perhaps the surest way, but also the slowest (seems to me, I don't know am still confused on whether it is the only way). Feeding the wheel with the right nonsense can perhaps bring about faster change, but it comes with the risk of prolonging the confusion.

[WindInTheLeaf]

@TheAvatarState striving for simplicity seems rather complicated, but it is perhaps the antidote for my foolish attempt to be wise. 

[TheAvatarState]

@WindInTheLeaf not feeding the wheel of thought is precisely the way. Don't believe me, experience it for yourself

[WindInTheLeaf]

@TheAvatarState but what then of my brothers and sisters? Should I just leave them spinning? And not feeding the wheel of thought seems like a rather hard thing to do. It almost seems as if it feeds itself.  

[ground]

10 hours ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

@ground@non_nothing the middle cannot be known,...

Depends on how you understand 'knowing the middle'.

[WindInTheLeaf]

@ground how so?

[purerogue]

Can someone give me scripture , or anything where  this third middle is mentioned, because I think that you are confusing same Nothing with some third middle ground, they sound exactly the same every time I read this. 

[ground]

2 minutes ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

@ground how so?

'knowing' can be understood in different ways and the understanding of 'the middle' depends on the understanding of 'something' and of 'nothing'.
Since - as I said above - language has not word for the middle of the extremes 'something' and 'nothing' 'knowing' in 'knowing the middle' cannot be a conceptual knowing.

[purerogue]

Nothing is not conceptual knowing, nothing is nothing, exactly the same as your middle ground, it does not have any concepts,shape form, or anything to it. 

 

[ground]

9 minutes ago, purerogue said:

Nothing is not conceptual knowing,

Sorry but the context was the expression 'knowing the middle' not the expression 'knowing nothing'.

[purerogue]

5 minutes ago, ground said:

Sorry but the context was the expression 'knowing the middle' not the expression 'knowing nothing'.

So where is this something middle mentioned? Everything,Something and Nothing, lets go like this so you stop confusing me with picking on language. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by purerogue

[ground]

1 minute ago, purerogue said:

So where is this something middle mentioned? 

21 hours ago, ground said:

Because language does not know the middle and thus causes this deceptive duality and ordinary mind is craving affirmation/support.

[purerogue]

5 minutes ago, ground said:

 

I am not asking you for explanation, I am asking you for where is it mentioned, I can give it name right now , dabaduhu, where is this dabaduhu mentioned ?It does not need to be explained to be mentioned somewhere, does it? 

Edited December 20, 2018 by purerogue

[non_nothing]

9 hours ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

@non_nothing your welcome, altough I don't know if I deserve thanks, I didn't do nothing.

Quote

The more sense something makes the harder it is to let go off.

This is something!

[ground]

7 minutes ago, purerogue said:

I am not asking you for explanation, I am asking you for where is it mentioned,

The middle is mentioned in teachings of the middle way.

[purerogue]

2 minutes ago, ground said:

The middle is mentioned in teachings of the middle way.

Where exactly is it mentioned, middle way is about having moderate life, not to one extreme , or other, not about there being middle in Everything and Nothing we are talking about. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by purerogue

[ground]

13 minutes ago, purerogue said:

Where exactly is it mentioned, middle way is about having moderate life, not to one extreme , or other, not about there being middle in Everything and Nothing we are talking about. 

'Middle way' is also the meaning of 'madhyamaka' and 'madhyamaka' teaches the middle as I have expressed it.