Why is there not nothing?

[WindInTheLeaf]

Why is there something rather than nothing? What do we assume here, by this question? What is its foundation? There seems to be two main assumptions as far as I can see: 1) there is something, 2) it makes more sense for there to be nothing than something. Realizing that the 'something' is not really something is one way to kill the question. But this realization is well hidden and to find it one must shed many layers of self. But what about the second assumption? Perhaps it is more easily broken.

Does it make more logical sense for there to be nothing rather than something? In math we have an expression for nothing, 0, which is the lack of anything  as it has no value, no energy; it is void of something so therefore it is nothing. But this nothing, this conception of nothing, exists only in relation to something, to the conception of something. Void of what? Void of something, of course! And so something? It is naturally void of nothing! See, it is not something, but rather is it the lack of that which it is not. So if nothing and something exists in a sort of codependent relationship, how could it make more sense for there to be nothing rather than something?

Well you might say: But this is not the true nothing! And perhaps you are right. But what is 'true nothing'? If it is truly nothing, then it must not even be nothing. It must be void of even that which is void of something. Now what would such a thing be? 

Another way to break the question is to flip the question on its head, to mirror it upon itself. 'Why should there not be something rather than nothing?'. What if all is as weeds in the garden, arising unless kept from arising? And what should keep something from arising out of nothing? What before was your trouble is now the solution. 

[Akuma]

Good question. However, I fear you are getting too much into semantics. You need direct experience. Not "logical" armchair philosophy.

A good metaphor/model that can sum up what I mean is - this question:

What disappears the moment you say its name?

The answer is: silence

You see the more you try to explain what silence is to someone, the further from the truth you will be. The more words, language and sounds you make to explain what silence is, the more you will puzzle that person.

The only way to showcase what silence is to a person, who has never experienced silence, is to become quiet - and there it is. 

[WindInTheLeaf]

Yes, I fully agree with you. And I have kept quiet in times where it was perhaps time to speak because of it. I cannot provide any answers, since I hold none. But I can perhaps provide some questions to this sea of questions, that questions the questions keeping one from returning to silence. Or maybe not, but then the question is but another wave on the wave of waves and I find it pretty groovy. 

[ground]

6 hours ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

Why is there something rather than nothing?

Because language does not know the middle and thus causes this deceptive duality and ordinary mind is craving affirmation/support.

Edited December 19, 2018 by ground

[Leo Gura]

Mu

[non_nothing]

Did someone summon me

 

 

 

Asking questions are granted.

We humans believe questions are the truth.

 

But they can only serve as gateway to the absolute truth.

 

The absolute truth is greater than that. All-containing, and the superset of everything.

 

===================

 

My model for that as follows:


 

 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ N O N  D U A L I T Y _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
                                                                                  
                                                                                   \\ \\
                                    /---------\                                    \\ \\ \\ \\ ____
                                    | NOTHING |                                    // // // //     |                    
                                    \---------/                                    // //           | A
                                             (a.k.a: silence, void, noself, zero)                  | B  T
                                                                                                   | S
 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ A L L   D U A L I S T I C  N A T U R E _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _                  | O  R
                                                                                                   | L
                                                                                   \\ \\           | U  U
/-------\  /-------\           /--------\  /---------\  /---------\                \\ \\ \\ \\ ____| T
| White +--+ Black +-- . . . --+ Colors +--+ Choices +--+ Duality +-- . . .        // // // //     | E  T
\-------/  \-------/           \--------/  \---------/  \---------/                // //           |
                                             (a.k.a: something, answers, mind, questions, truth)   |    H
                                                                                                   |
 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ O N E N E S S _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _                   |
                                                                                                   |                                                                                  
                                                                                   \\ \\           |
                                  /------------\                                   \\ \\ \\ \\ ____|
                                  | EVERYTHING |                                   // // // //     
                                  \------------/                                   // //          
                                             (a.k.a: god, whole, infinity)
 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 

 

Top and bottom layer is transcended from middle layer. The important thing to note here is, the bottom layer is not DEFINED as "super-set of every possible dualistic nature (middle layer)"

Also layers are not in some order. Top doesn't mean number one.

Every layer has its own personal experience for one to recognize. When one understands this reality, he will transcend into "absolute truth, Self, higher-self, God-self" (on noted right-side on layers)

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by non_nothing

[iGhost]

1 hour ago, non_nothing said:

When one understands this reality, he will transcend into "absolute truth, Self, higher-self, God-self" (on noted right-side on layers)

 

Well, I understand it but cannot permanently grasp it yet :\ It comes and goes, but the frequency of the glimpses is higher and higher.

[non_nothing]

27 minutes ago, iGhost said:

Well, I understand it but cannot permanently grasp it yet :\ It comes and goes, but the frequency of the glimpses is higher and higher.

Committ doing meditation and self-inquiry, It will happen

[WindInTheLeaf]

@ground the middle cannot be known, but to get to the middle one must first overcome each and every question. How do we kill the questions without answers? Like a fire with no water; let it burn out itself. But how can I aid this transition? Can I put a fire underneath the fire and choke it to death by its own smoke? Make the flames turn back on themselves? Questioning the questions and beliefs underlying those questions may aid in the transition to the questionless state. At least this is what I have come to believe. Is my belief rotten? Perhaps. You tell me, for I cannot see it from where I stand. 

@non_nothing nice little scheme you made. Be careful with that. The more sense something makes the harder it is to let go off. The biggest obstacle to enlightenment is not what one does not know but rather what one believes to know. Is absolute truth present as relative truth or are they exclusive of one another?

[tsuki]

@WindInTheLeaf How about this question:

How is nothing different from something?

[non_nothing]

1 hour ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

@ground the middle cannot be known, but to get to the middle one must first overcome each and every question. How do we kill the questions without answers? Like a fire with no water; let it burn out itself. But how can I aid this transition? Can I put a fire underneath the fire and choke it to death by its own smoke? Make the flames turn back on themselves? Questioning the questions and beliefs underlying those questions may aid in the transition to the questionless state. At least this is what I have come to believe. Is my belief rotten? Perhaps. You tell me, for I cannot see it from where I stand. 

@non_nothing nice little scheme you made. Be careful with that. The more sense something makes the harder it is to let go off. The biggest obstacle to enlightenment is not what one does not know but rather what one believes to know. Is absolute truth present as relative truth or are they exclusive of one another?

Thank you.

[WindInTheLeaf]

@tsuki that is a nice question. My mind is blank, so either I cannot see the answer or there is none. Perhaps they are one and the same; Is there an answer if I don't see it? And if I saw an answer, would that be wrong if there is none there to see?

Perhaps there are ten thousand answers, all of them neither right nor wrong - and how could any of them thus not be as right as the next? But a still mind holds neither answers nor questions, so no answer must, in a way, be closer to the truth of silence. But if an answer is sought as part of a conversation somewhere like here, then the lack of answer would seem to leave a hole in the conversation would it not? He who asked the question is looking for some answer that is not there, so to him it must surely feel like there is nothing where there should be something.

To him who seeks something, nothing must surely be the lack of that something. If he were to realize the true nature of that something he seeks, he would perhaps no longer see any intrinsic difference between nothing and something, but until he does the difference must surely exist to him. To help alleviate him of such nonsense(if you believe it to be nonsense), it is crucial to take him by the hand from where he stands and lead him from the inside out. You cannot stand outside and tear at his beliefs, for he will merely turn away. You cannot speak the voice of silence, for he cannot hear it.

So, if I were in a conversation with someone who believes there to exist a difference between something and nothing, I would say there exists such a difference, and yes it does make sense for that difference to be as he sees it. And then, from common ground, it is easier to slowly close the gap between the two categorizations. Perhaps I found my answer - that they are same same but different. But am I really saying anything? Perhaps this is no answer disguised as an answer - nothing as something.

Edited December 19, 2018 by WindInTheLeaf
one big blop of text turned to 4

[WindInTheLeaf]

@non_nothing your welcome, altough I don't know if I deserve thanks, I didn't do nothing.

[TheAvatarState]

@WindInTheLeaf "nothing" and "something" are concepts. Do they actually exist? 

"But what is true nothing?" Why don't you have a look around 

[archi]

41 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

"But what is true nothing?" 

It is un-explainable and un-describable and it is the same as you look at it.

[WindInTheLeaf]

@TheAvatarState surely it is a matter of perception. But for he who is looking around and seeing something and nothing it is of no use to be told he is wrong. And if he cannot be blamed for what he sees it is on the shoulders of he who sees the bigger picture to align himself according to he who does not - if his wish is to guide that is. 

Imagine a vibrating string. It is constantly vibrating on its own accord. But in its vibration are certain spots where the string is completely still. Imagine someone as that string. To bring him to rest either the energy of the string must carry out itself - which is impossible as long as it exists so it will happen upon death - or you must aid him in moving to the restful spot - the middle if you wish. To get there is all a matter of changing his perception. But his defense mechanisms are naturally tuned to keep him alive and what you wish to accomplish is to bring him to death while still alive. If he  clings to life as a young soul tends to do you may try for as long as is possible and you will not move him an inch. If he has been on this ride for a long time and finds no satisfaction anywhere and perhaps he starts questioning what the hell this is all about, you may speed up his comedown-phase by aiding him in seeing through whatever illusion he is currently struggling to let go. To do this you must lead him to see the contradictions of his beliefs and actions. You must help him slowly empty his cup - at whatever speed he feels comfortable with. How shall you accomplish this if you stand towering above him with a lifted finger? How shall you know what he is ready to let go if you don't see through his eyes? 

Now why am I then writing on a public forum with a thousand eyes watching? How can I ever reach them all? Well I cannot and this is probably all for nothing but then it is as a sacrifice to nothing so that nothing may give something in return. And some questions exist on a collective scale, as they are amongst the last to break. No matter which road you travel you will eventually come to the same crossroad. But then again, this may act not as something to ease the transitioning but as a more complicated obstacle than what stood before. I hope there is not too much sense in my words. But then again the hardest puzzles are the most fun to break.

[TheAvatarState]

@WindInTheLeaf I am not trying to talk down to you and tell you you're wrong. If you read my comment, all I suggested you do is observe. Observe that nothing and something are concepts of your mind, bound to reasoning and logic. If you want to find the answer to your question, you must be open to seeing another perspective, one that is trans-rational. One that cannot be grasped by the mind.

Yes, I'm aware that the ego mind is a harmonic oscillator, just like Leo described in his "Understanding Ego Backlash" video. There's nothing easy about this, if it were, we'd all have a nondual perspective. All perspectives are valid, all have slivers of Truth, but not all perspectives are equal. There IS something higher. The only requirement is an radically open mind.

[LastThursday]

@WindInTheLeaf there is something because there is awareness. The alternative question is: why is there awareness?

[TheAvatarState]

@LastThursday Yes, I like this. There wouldn't be anything unless there was awareness to perceive it. All we have of reality are first person perceptions. There's not logical reason for awareness to exist, you're not going to get to the answer of such a question through the mind.

[LastThursday]

5 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

you're not going to get to the answer of such a question through the mind.

No. But you can try and bypass the mind. So you could also say: there is awareness because there is something. The mind baulks at circularity, but there's truth in the circularity. A circularity points at one thing: inconsistency. This is otherwise known as illusion. Whenever you have a self referential system, that is also illusion. This is because a self referential system has no foundation or ground. That is why Perception a.k.a. Reality is an illusion.

Basically, if you say that 'I am aware that I am aware', then it is an illusion.