Everything Is Predetermined

[Azrael]

If everything is pre-determined when was it determined,  by whom and did he have free-will to do so?

[SOUL]

24 minutes ago, zambize said:

I disagree, and that's not to imply lack of determinism means there is free will.  But determinism seems to just inherently be disproven via the probabilistic nature of things like quantum mechanics.  From a more non-dual side and less science oriented approach, could one not consider determinism vs non determinism a categorization, a big no no in terms of the Truth being beyond words and categories 

Haha.... I guess you didn't understand my reference to the quantum nature of the universe, do you see it now?

[zambize]

47 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Haha.... I guess you didn't understand my reference to the quantum nature of the universe, do you see it now?

I do I do, I like you

[non_nothing]

everything is predetermined,

 

(non_nothing): including all infinite possibilities

[Pilgrim]

14 hours ago, Yousef said:

No. You are not a brain living in physical world.  It doesn't make sense whatsoever.  And don't ask me to explain it to you here. .just watch the first video I sent you combined with this one :

Yes that is true on a more absolute level. But Leo said it himself that in order to realise no self you need a strong self first. I guess my approach is just different than yours. I do not care - at the moment - if what I am saying is true in the absolute. I am aware that it likely isn't. Yet that's not where I currently am in my development and my direct experience. I am experiencing the physical world - in the absolute this is probably an illusion - yet I have no direct experience of this knowledge. It's something I can sort of grasp intellectually. But so far I have the direct experience of being a body and a mind.. and I think that in order to fully experience no-self, you first need a strong, healthy sense of self. And the healthiest sense of self is the true self in my opinion. It's all a paradox. 

And the only focus I currently have is alignment. Softening my natural weaknesses and enhancing my natural strengths in order to function better in the world. Knowing my true motives. Creating an environment that fits with these insights. Nothing more for now. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Pilgrim

[Pilgrim]

13 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

The everything is predetermined belief is like the no free will belief — it’s the Mind acting outside of its own pay-grade.  It’s the Mind getting in the way of things instead of helping things.  I think it’s useful when you study Enlightenment Work to flirt with the no free will side of the Paradox of Free will and No Free Will.  But at the end of the day, there’s an ‘and’ in that paradox.  There’s free will and no free will, and you gotta work both ends of that paradox.  Clinging to one side or the other of that paradox causes problems.  Think about this — do you think you’re gonna be good at changing your life if you believe you have no free will?  Do you think you’re gonna change your life if you believe everything is predestined or predetermined?  F*ck no you're not!  This stuff is not rocket science, but you do need to see through things and not get trapped by theory basically.  If we’re sitting around dilly-dallying with the theory not taking any action because we have these beliefs in predestination and no free will — that’s not what Personal Development Work is about anymore!  That’s more like religion, taking comfort in belief — it’s gone outside the realm of Personal Development Work.

that is a brilliant post. 

[non_nothing]

1 minute ago, Yousef said:

Wrong! .

Yes very wrong

No very wrong

Yes very right

No very right

Yes you're right

No you're right

Yes you're not right

No you're not right.

[sarapr]

You don't know the beggining of the universe so any assumption could be wrong and any theory based on wrong assumption could be proven right. So no one can ever say either way, it just doesn't work that way