Everything Is Predetermined

[Outer]

 

[Pilgrim]

I am also still so immersed with this question, but I think the brain basically decides who you are as a person and you are simply reacting and executing. But with awareness you can at least decide how you react. "You can do what you want, but you cannot want what you want". 

But with changing the brain structure, the personality would definitely change. Thus with influencing brain plasticity we would be able to decide what we want.. at least a bit. 

[ajasatya]

we feel as if were free, thus we're free.

that's all i have to say. gonna go back to hardwork.

[Outer]

4 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

we feel as if were free, thus we're free.

that's all i have to say. gonna go back to hardwork.

lol

[purerogue]

Anything that happens once is predetermined, with free will , or without, you just do not know outcome , but there will be just 1 outcome. 

[ajasatya]

Just now, Yousef said:

After I realised I'm not free

bs dogma. as far as i feel, i can close and open my fist.

"oh but did you really choose to do that?" - what a waste of time.

the free will / no free will paradox is an endless pool of mental masturbation.

[ajasatya]

4 minutes ago, Yousef said:

So I should stop thinking about this issue ha?. ..but I can't help it. .I'm not free.

Here's where this paradox will mindfuck you. ."oh this is a waste of time. .I should go do something else "..but then your mind throws this "but even this I'm not free at ".  You are stuck now. ..

that's just a thought. you validate it as true because you're stubborn, fighting against your own mental health.

wake up! Truth has NOTHING to do with what you think.

Edited December 18, 2018 by ajasatya

[Shin]

3 minutes ago, Yousef said:

So I should stop thinking about this issue ha?. ..but I can't help it. .I'm not free.

Here's where this paradox will mindfuck you. ."oh this is a waste of time. .I should go do something else "..but then your mind throws this "but even this I'm not free at ".  You are stuck now. ..

If there is no doer, there is no one or no thing to be free or not, the notion of free will would become irrelevant.

If there is a doer, there is free will.

In both case it's a non-issue.

[Pilgrim]

I think it's useful in a sense to know this. Because you won't spend endless time on trying to improve yourself in order to become what you are not. This clearly shows that the only thing you can become is who you are and I find that beautiful in a way. We are all meant to be exactly who we are, so we are all allowed to be our authentic selves. 

Yet you can still use the knowledge of neural structure and how it affects your behaviour in order to enhance your motivation and improve your natural strengths and soften your weaknesses. Who cares if the impulse starts from the brain or from me.. that's truly not important. But knowing that you are here to be your true self is beautiful in my opinion. 

[ajasatya]

3 minutes ago, Yousef said:

Why precisely it poped In my awareness right this second not the second after?

if it had popped 1 second later, would you still ask yourself "why didn't it pop one second earlier?"

so, your question is equivalent to the following one: "why are things the way they are?"

and then you can go all the way through the rabbit hole and find nothing but a shitload of dogmas.

sorry, you can't break down Truth as the mind desires. the present moment is an unsolvable mystery.

behold! existence is an infinite source of awe!

[Shin]

4 minutes ago, Yousef said:

Yes ofc.  Why you think I disagree on that?. This exactly the conclusion that I want to get  to.  If you see my first comment on this thread .I'm NOT arguing for determinism.  Both free will and determinism don't make sense.  It's a mystery.  

Then why are you debating on something you admit you can't know anything about ?

[outlandish]

From the perspective of an ego there is free will (or won't) and from outside the ego there isn't. Neither are the absolute truth IMO.

This is a rich topic, one of the big questions for sure.

[Shin]

2 minutes ago, Yousef said:

No. I KNOW that we don't have free will. It's  just so obviousle.  And also this world is not deterministic or mechanical. .It just doesn't make sense either.  So ..now what's actually going on here. .that I don't know for sure. 

There is a difference between knowing something and experiencing something.

In the first case it's mental masturbation and arrogance of the mind, in the second it's true knowledge.

[Pilgrim]

18 minutes ago, Yousef said:

So I'm basically questioning your whole idea of affecting "our brains" to improve "ourselves "

Well that was basically what they said in the video.. brain activity is there before you know what you want to do, thus the brain decides how you behave. That counts for this physical world.. on a more absolute level this is probably unimportant, but well we experience this physical world.. so I find it useful  

[zambize]

37 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

if it had popped 1 second later, would you still ask yourself "why didn't it pop one second earlier?"

so, your question is equivalent to the following one: "why are things the way they are?"

and then you can go all the way through the rabbit hole and find nothing but a shitload of dogmas.

sorry, you can't break down Truth as the mind desires. the present moment is an unsolvable mystery.

behold! existence is an infinite source of awe!

No need to be sorry, that's kind of comforting 

[Joseph Maynor]

The everything is predetermined belief is like the no free will belief — it’s the Mind acting outside of its own pay-grade.  It’s the Mind getting in the way of things instead of helping things.  I think it’s useful when you study Enlightenment Work to flirt with the no free will side of the Paradox of Free will and No Free Will.  But at the end of the day, there’s an ‘and’ in that paradox.  There’s free will and no free will, and you gotta work both ends of that paradox.  Clinging to one side or the other of that paradox causes problems.  Think about this — do you think you’re gonna be good at changing your life if you believe you have no free will?  Do you think you’re gonna change your life if you believe everything is predestined or predetermined?  F*ck no you're not!  This stuff is not rocket science, but you do need to see through things and not get trapped by theory basically.  If we’re sitting around dilly-dallying with the theory not taking any action because we have these beliefs in predestination and no free will — that’s not what Personal Development Work is about anymore!  That’s more like religion, taking comfort in belief — it’s gone outside the realm of Personal Development Work.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[lmfao]

@Outer Everything just is the way it is, nothing is done by you in creating this moment. Reality is always in a situation you did nothing to make or control. 

[ground]

Nothing is predetermined. How could anything be predetermined since there is no inherently existing causality?

[SOUL]

Everything is predetermined.... to be indeterminate...... until observed.

[zambize]

1 minute ago, SOUL said:

Everything is predetermined.... to be indeterminate...... until observed.

I disagree, and that's not to imply lack of determinism means there is free will.  But determinism seems to just inherently be disproven via the probabilistic nature of things like quantum mechanics.  From a more non-dual side and less science oriented approach, could one not consider determinism vs non determinism a categorization, a big no no in terms of the Truth being beyond words and categories