Enlightenment from 30,000 feet

[seeking_brilliance]

8 hours ago, winterknight said:

As long as you consider yourself a seeker, you must practice, and practice with effort. Even knowing theoretically that you are not really a seeker, that there is no thinker of thoughts, there is no real effort, and that thoughts arise "exactly as they do" -- that intellectual knowledge is insufficient until it is directly recognized beyond the intellect.

So surrender is one key practice -- it's a choice between it and self-inquiry, which are anyway two sides of a coin -- recommended to those who consider themselves seekers. In the end, the very ideas of surrender and the one who surrenders themselves are surrendered, of course. But the seeker cannot do that voluntarily. It just happens.

And when it happens, it will then be clear that there was no such thing as anyone who surrendered or who needed to surrender at any time.

Yes thank you so much. My second point to the post was the programmable nature of thought, or is that just an illusion as well. But I'm sure its just an illusion. However it seems closer to truth than being the actual thinker of thoughts. 

[winterknight]

3 hours ago, Preetom said:

Did I ever say self-realization is NOT the end of suffering?

It IS end of suffering. In fact, so end of suffering that you might cry for your daughter diagnosed with cancer and YET not suffer.

You have some very naive and fantastical notions about Enlightenment; especially bringing in how body-mind should or should not react; as if Enlightenment is for the body-mind.

No body-mind ever got Enlightened. It's like you're trying to measure the temperature of the Sun but you declare that the Sun is cold today just because it's a rainy day lol

Bingo.

[Salvijus]

4 hours ago, Blissout said:

Self Realized people would still feel and scream from physical pain like injury. but the mental psychological suffering is gone.

So if a person who is liberated and his daughter has cancer. there won't be ruminating and suffering over it. the peace of mind will be always present and nothing will ever affect it.

 

However like I said, the OP isn't liberated, unless something in his state changed since last time I asked him questions.

Again, people should read the ancient text and listen to people who are truly liberated.

Enlightened being who's beyond his body and mind. Who has no identification with the body would not scream when being stabbed. 

Yes he would feel pain. But would not react to it because he is totally detached from it. In his experience stabbing is not even happening to him, because he's not the body and he knows that. Thus mind would be in total peace and bliss. No screaming or any kind of suffering is possible in enlightened being.

Such a one who's completly unidentified with his body. Could take his eyeballs with bare hands and thorw it away. 

If you think that's crazy it's because you have delusions about what enlightenment is.

I suggest to everyone who thinks this is crazy to contemplate what having 0 identification with the body really means. And I mean WHAT IT REALLY REALLY MEANS.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Salvijus

[winterknight]

22 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Enlightened being who's beyond his body and mind. Who has no identification with the body would not scream when being stabbed. 

Yes he would feel pain. But would not react to it because he is totally detached from it. In his experience stabbing is not even happening to him, because he's not the body and he knows that. Thus mind would be in total peace and bliss. No screaming or any kind of suffering is possible in enlightened being.

Such a one who's completly unidentified with his body. Could take his eyeballs with bare hands and thorw it away. 

If you think that's crazy it's because you have delusions about what enlightenment is.

I suggest to everyone who thinks this is crazy to contemplate what having 0 identification with the body really means. And I mean WHAT IT REALLY REALLY MEANS.

This is all deep misunderstanding that comes from the belief that it is the body-mind that is enlightened. It is not.

It is not the mind that is "in total peace and bliss," but the Self that is peace and bliss, and is so even when the mind seems roiled by feelings of pain, sadness, and so on.

Jesus on the cross cried out "My God, my god, why have you forsaken me?"

The Buddha felt back pain and reacted to it by stretching his back.

In the Hindu scriptures, even the great enlightened divine sages feel depressed and even suicidal from time to time. This is all at the superficial mind level. The enlightened one does not define himself or herself by emotions.

Edited December 18, 2018 by winterknight

[winterknight]

19 minutes ago, rounder said:

with all of this experience I found EXACTLY what I value, so I wouldn't need the therapy you speak of right? I also find it very hard to sustain 24/7 though, but that is just a matter of drilling this into my subconscious over-time to replace the materialism that i've spent 28 years accumulating in it right?

Well, I find psychoanalytic therapy useful for everyone, pretty much .

I wouldn't say drilling exactly... that may be what it feels like, but the question is: who is it that feels that it's very hard to sustain? That's what must be investigated deeper and deeper and over and over until it is crystal clear. And you will know it is crystal clear when that peace is no longer felt to be "hard to sustain 24/7."

[Mu_]

@Blissout @Preetom

 

Your both right!  Your both quoting different awakened masters accepted by human beings as Enlightened.  Each one of you believe different things and both are right in the whole of everything.  Unless you believe there is a set in stone definition of Enlightenment defined by the original source, layed out in some bible buried under the sea, its probably just speculation and accepted definitions within yourself.  One would even say understanding this, is Enlightenment, but this is a word better discarded outside of trying to use labels to roughly communicate.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Mu_

[Privet]

On 18.12.2018 at 0:41 PM, winterknight said:

And good idea on the therapy video, will definitely consider that.

I join the request, very curious about your view of that topic.