Enlightenment from 30,000 feet

[Blissout]

Well I really hope for you that you are liberated.

Because the ones that are liberated I personally know about ended their suffering COMPLETELY.

Which means, if a very beloved person died, they won't suffer from any anxiety and depression. they still have a peace of mind. unaffected. IF they know they are going to die by tommorow by cancer, FEAR is completely absent.

 

IF it is not like this for you, which it probably isn't because again, long time I asked you about that and you said anxiety and future worries GO ON. you made it look like that the ones who claim to be liberated and ended suffering completely are lying. but did you think maybe you are in the "wrong"?

THEN you are not liberated!

You might have a nice permanent shift, but still got work to do.

 

I would suggest reading the ancient texts as well.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Blissout

[Salvijus]

@Blissout I asked him what would be your experience if someone stabbed you. He said mind would be screaming. But true I is uneffected....

Any unenlightened person could say the same thing.

[Preetom]

@Blissout

You really got a super fantasized version of Enlightenment.

22 minutes ago, Blissout said:

Because the ones that are liberated I personally know about ended their suffering COMPLETELY.

Which means, if a very beloved person died, they won't suffer from any anxiety and depression. they still have a peace of mind. unaffected. IF they know they are going to die by tommorow by cancer, FEAR is completely absent.

If this is a strict parameter, then may as well just commit suicide and leave behind the dead insentient body. That flesh doll won't have ANY emotional or psychological reaction whatsoever. That would be ENLIGHTENMENT. YAY!! THE FLESH DOLL GOT ENLIGHTENED! CONGRATULATIONS!!  

You are fantasizing about using a software, an app or any device without EVER running into a bug or crash here and there. 

Realize that body and mind are machines. And they are so interdependent on basically every element of it's surrounding which is really infinite amount of parameters. There cannot be THE PERFECT body and mind. All manifestations are inherently limited and operates in cyclical up-down curves according to the laws of nature.

The core of Enlightenment is seeing that this imperfection of body-mind has nothing to do with me. Enlightenment can't make the body-mind perfect. But sure you can try various strategies and self-help to optimize this machine and there is nothing wrong with that.

[Blissout]

14 minutes ago, Preetom said:

@Blissout

You really got a super fantasized version of Enlightenment.

If this is a strict parameter, then may as well just commit suicide and leave behind the dead insentient body. That flesh doll won't have ANY emotional or psychological reaction whatsoever. That would be ENLIGHTENMENT. YAY!! THE FLESH DOLL GOT ENLIGHTENED! CONGRATULATIONS!!  

You are fantasizing about using a software, an app or any device without EVER running into a bug or crash here and there. 

Realize that body and mind are machines. And they are so interdependent on basically every element of it's surrounding which is really infinite amount of parameters. There cannot be THE PERFECT body and mind. All manifestations are inherently limited and operates in cyclical up-down curves according to the laws of nature.

The core of Enlightenment is seeing that this imperfection of body-mind has nothing to do with me. Enlightenment can't make the body-mind perfect. But sure you can try various strategies and self-help to optimize this machine and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

Dude, you are stuck in mind concepts.

You don't even know what self realization is.

For your own sake, do some research before spouting nonsense.

Thanks.

 

PS: I suggest reading some Ramana and Nisargadatta. both of them are self realized and ended suffering.

STOP bringing your own definition of enlightenment here.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Blissout

[Blissout]

33 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Blissout I asked him what would be your experience if someone stabbed you. He said mind would be screaming. But true I is uneffected....

Any unenlightened person could say the same thing.

Self Realized people would still feel and scream from physical pain like injury. but the mental psychological suffering is gone.

So if a person who is liberated and his daughter has cancer. there won't be ruminating and suffering over it. the peace of mind will be always present and nothing will ever affect it.

 

However like I said, the OP isn't liberated, unless something in his state changed since last time I asked him questions.

Again, people should read the ancient text and listen to people who are truly liberated.

[Preetom]

@Blissout

It's the attitude that you're holding right now that leads to fanatical cult following.

With this attitude, you start glorifying that 'ONE GURU' who is the PERFECT; the GOD HIMSELF descent in human flesh. Imposing perfection on all levels and chasing that mirage for the rest of your life.

We all know how those stories end up usually... 

Every body-mind has good days and bad days, ups and downs, stillness and chaos; just like virtually every element of nature goes through this wheel.

 

[Blissout]

1 minute ago, Preetom said:

@Blissout

It's the attitude that you're holding right now that leads to fanatical cult following.

With this attitude, you start glorifying that 'ONE GURU' who is the PERFECT; the GOD HIMSELF descent in human flesh. Imposing perfection on all levels and chasing that mirage for the rest of your life.

We all know how those stories end up usually... 

Every body-mind has good days and bad days, ups and downs, stillness and chaos; just like virtually every element of nature goes through this wheel.

 

Man please stop. you are confused. are you even listening to yourself?

If you met Nisargadatta he would throw you out for being so conceptual.

Follow his advice and meditate on the IAM

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Blissout

[Preetom]

2 minutes ago, Blissout said:

Self Realized people would still feel and scream from physical pain like injury. but the mental psychological suffering is gone.

So if a person who is liberated and his daughter has cancer. there won't be ruminating and suffering over it. the peace of mind will be always present and nothing will ever affect it.

A psychopath or an Alzheimer patient may also forget about his/her daughter's cancer or not give a fuck because that's how their psyche is wired. The dad could snort drugs and forget all this shit and live in perpetual 'mind numbing peace'

The true master would cry for his daughter, 'suffer' along with her all the way, mourn with the family; YET not be deluded by this play for once. That would be the true test of Enlightenment. 

[Preetom]

8 minutes ago, Blissout said:

Man please stop. you are confused. are you even listening to yourself?

If you met Nisargadatta he would throw you out for being so conceptual.

Follow his advice and meditate on the IAM

LMAO!! Don't throw your idealized version of Nisargadatta at me  

 

[Blissout]

Just now, Preetom said:

A psychopath or an Alzheimer patient may also forget about his/her daughter's cancer or not give a fuck because that's how their psyche is wired. The dad could snort drugs and forget all this shit and live in perpetual 'mind numbing peace'

The true master would cry for his daughter, 'suffer' along with her all the way, mourn with the family; YET not be deluded by this play for once. That would be the true test of Enlightenment. 

You don't know what you are talking about because you don't know what realizing your true nature means.

You still have a spiritual ego. your ego is getting a hold of you.

You probably don't meditate to realize your true nature and be in a state of permanent peace bliss.

You enjoy suffering like most people. talk a lot. do so little to end it.

[Blissout]

1 minute ago, Preetom said:

LMAO!! Don't throw your idealized version of Nisargadatta at me  

 

Idealized version? I bet you haven't listened to anything he said from being so stuck in your spiritual ego mind.

You don't like the idea of ending suffering because you (the ego) don't want it to end.

Don't expect sympathy from any of us.

[Preetom]

Just now, Blissout said:

Idealized version? I bet you haven't listened to anything he said from being so stuck in your spiritual ego mind.

You don't like the idea of ending suffering because you (the ego) don't want it to end.

Don't expect sympathy from any of us.

Have you even clicked the play button and heard the line?

''Occasionally an old reaction, emotional or mental, happens in the mind. But it is at once noticed and discarded. After all, as long as one is burdened with a personality, one is exposed to it's idiosyncrasies and habits'' 

 

[Blissout]

5 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Have you even clicked the play button and heard the line?

''Occasionally an old reaction, emotional or mental, happens in the mind. But it is at once noticed and discarded. After all, as long as one is burdened with a personality, one is exposed to it's idiosyncrasies and habits'' 

 

Yes I did. I know this video.

This line doesn't reject the fact that self realization is the end suffering.

PS: Also Nisargadatta had cancer, he said himself that he doesn't suffering and is in peace and bliss.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Blissout

[purerogue]

It is actually interesting when you think about it,  there are at least 2 sides that fight among them self, you can not say that personality does not want to end suffering, if it would not want it, you would not do it, there is this inner conflict  of 2 or more sides that fight to win.

[Preetom]

47 minutes ago, Blissout said:

Yes I did. I know this video.

This line doesn't reject the fact that self realization is the end suffering.

Did I ever say self-realization is NOT the end of suffering?

It IS end of suffering. In fact, so end of suffering that you might cry for your daughter diagnosed with cancer and YET not suffer.

You have some very naive and fantastical notions about Enlightenment; especially bringing in how body-mind should or should not react; as if Enlightenment is for the body-mind.

No body-mind ever got Enlightened. It's like you're trying to measure the temperature of the Sun but you declare that the Sun is cold today just because it's a rainy day lol

Edited December 18, 2018 by Preetom

[Blissout]

5 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Did I ever say self-realization is NOT the end of suffering?

It IS end of suffering. In fact, so end of suffering that you might cry for daughter diagnosed with cancer and YET not suffer.

You have some very naive and fantastical notions about Enlightenment; especially bringing in how body-mind should or should not react; as if Enlightenment is for the body-mind.

No body-mind ever got Enlightened. It's like you're trying to measure the temperature of the Sun but you declare that the Sun is cold today just because it's a rainy day lol

You should have spoken more clearly then.

Notions such as "there is no one to get liberated". "body-mind does not get liberated". are useless and only add more confusions.

Liberated persons can claim and say "I am enlightened and all my suffering is gone forever and ever".

Someone who is liberated however, fear and anxiety won't arise ever again, nor the physical symptoms associated with it.

Now the question is for OP is if it is so for him?

Like I said a bit more than one year ago he said the complete opposite.

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Blissout

[Preetom]

42 minutes ago, Preetom said:

It IS end of suffering. In fact, so end of suffering that you might cry for daughter diagnosed with cancer and YET not suffer.

And I say this from personal experience. In fact, it was the very first breakthrough I ever had through self-inquiry.

My body-mind was in a very precarious and terrible condition(if I may contrast it with regular condition). But yet, I remained untouched, still and absolutely perfect...like the eye of the tornado.

That is the level of transcending of suffering we are talking about. Not the version, where you become like a desensitized zombie and never sympathize or have any feelings and emotions because at the back of your mind, you are still scared shitless about the mind reactions.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Preetom

[Preetom]

39 minutes ago, Blissout said:

You should have spoken more clearly then.

Notions such as "there is no one to get liberated". "body-mind does not get liberated". are useless and only add more confusions.

Liberated persons can claim and say "I am enlightened and all my suffering is gone forever and ever".

Someone who is liberated however, fear and anxiety won't arise ever again, nor the physical symptoms associated with it.

Now the question is for OP is if it is so for him?

Like I said a bit more than one year ago he said the complete opposite.

You're still putting the body-mind machine way up the pedestal. If you've read ancient texts, you know that mind itself is a subtle body made out of subtle elements. Just like your physical body will feel pain if a knife is stuck in your tummy even if your Enlightened over 9000!; the mind and emotions have it's own vulnerability as well. No body-mind is ever infallible and invulnerable.

Yes there are even some whacked out case like the Buddhist Tibetian monk who burnt himself alive while sitting perfectly in meditation posture without moving an inch as a silent protest during Chinese invasion. But these are altered states of Consciousness/brain functions/Siddhis; they have nothing to do with self-realization. 

I watched a documentary about a little kid whose pain related motor responses don't work. He absolutely feels no physical pain. He may have a knife cut on his back and bleed for 2 hours and die but yet not know that there is an injury; which makes this condition so dangerous. Would you say this kid is the most Enlightened master? No!

Similarly, mind is a body as well with it's own vulnerabilities and limits. Of course if we acknowledge body-mind for discussion's sake.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Preetom

[Blissout]

6 minutes ago, Preetom said:

You're still putting the body-mind machine way up the pedestal. If you've read ancient texts, you know that mind itself is a subtle body made out of subtle elements. Just like your physical body will feel pain if a knife is stuck in your tummy even if your Enlightened over 9000!; the mind and emotions have it's own vulnerability as well. No body-mind is ever infallible and invulnerable.

Yes there are even some whacked out case like the Buddhist Tibetian monk who burnt himself alive while sitting perfectly in meditation posture without moving an inch as a silent protest during Chinese invasion. But these are altered states of Consciousness/brain functions/Siddhis; they have nothing to do with self-realization. 

I watched a documentary about a little kid whose pain related motor responses don't work. He absolutely feels no physical pain. He may have knife cut on his back and bleed for 2 hours and die but yet not know that there is an injury; which makes this condition so dangerous. Would you say this kid is the most Enlightened master? No!

Similarly, mind is a body as well with it's own vulnerabilities and limits. Of course if we acknowledge body-mind for discussion's sake.

You are taking about physical pain. doesn't matter how liberated you are, anyone will feel pain of injury.

The whole point is. self realization is the end of suffering. no more painful feelings.

Sure the emotions do go on, but the mental pain is completely absent. there is no lack or gain for the realized as he is always in peace.

Ramana screamed from pain when he had cancer. but his mental suffering was completely absent.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Blissout

[Preetom]

Just now, Blissout said:

there is no lack or gain for the realized as he is always in peace.

Now we are talking. And this peace must also outlast the tumultuous ups and downs of body-mind. This peace doesn't mean that body-mind will no longer have any ups and downs