Investigating The Mind's Mechanics

[OneLittleHumanMind]

I've done a lot of observing of the mind latterly and I see the mind react to that in various ways. Oftentimes I see that rather than there being an individual mind, like a container, there is a bunch of mechanisms of a human mind, which keep working whether I have considerable thoughts or not.

So, at the same time I don't have quite a much thoughts running in my head and there is a dominant peace, but I have those mind mechanisms that make it hard to see further.

When I look into my mind, and I try to catch up that which is not the mind, it seems to make a total loop back to where I started. So, I see only some faint thoughts or a state which demonstrates the "other than the mind", but quite seemingly isn't it. Then I discard that state in expectation of seeing something that is not a state. But again, because I seem to have even a notion of the non-state, that comes up, and I still can't verify it to be other than the mind.

"I am" is the only 'thing' I see to be prior to a thought. And at least, I know very well what could be mind's activity and not reality. But can I ever truly know if I have transcended it, in the limitations of an inquiry? Can I really pull ahead of that endless loop? These are my questions for this topic.

[Mu_]

What are YOU looking for in this investigation?  What are YOUR initial intentions in this quandary?  After reading some of your other posts, you sound like you have a pretty decent life other than maybe OCD?  Are you looking for peace of mind, happiness, enlightenment?

From what I've gathered, you have some depth of understanding and insight in your spiritual search that recognizes that YOU are looking for a state, but you've also learned that what your looking for can't come from that position.  Your searching for something like you would a person with a map looking for treasure, which is natural.  You have some concepts and ideas youve learned about that are pointing you to a treasure you want to find.  This searching in your head/body is a traveling of sorts looking for the markers and idea's youve learned about and you are looking for those, maybe hoping that one of them will be enlightenment or a transcendence of the mind.

Unfortunately, but not always, this can lead you in a circle of your own mind, but by the peace you've said you found it seems to have yielded some fruit in your garden.  Have you heard the spiritual saying, you are what your looking for (by your post, it sounds like you may of come across it at one point). 

Well quiet LITERALLY you are what your looking for and often the act of searching for IT, is taking you into your mind/emotions/body looking for whats already present and self known and unfortunately forgotten.

You ever try and try and put your awareness on the sense of I, or the source of what is looking.  This can have a profound shift of awareness, in fact there is a well written post on this process and comes from a enlightened sage from India, Ramana Maharshi. 

So again.  Whats your goal.  Whats missing?  Maybe I can help more.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Mu_

[OneLittleHumanMind]

@Mu_ Thank you for replying.

Well, at this point, it's quite hard to define a destination I am aiming to, because on one hand I don't really see a destination, and on the other.. I know there's still something more. But this more I am pointing to, is not something substantial, or a state or a place. Everything I do in my everyday life lacks a stopping point, so I can't presume any longer that there's any. It's saddening to the mind, but I'm peace with it, and I just try my best to see what's this all about.

So, rather than looking for something, I'm looking deeper. I observe my trying, and I observe when I'm not trying. I watch what's there anyways, how a self can't do anything, so I somehow know that I always remain as nothing. But my suspicion is, whether I've really tapped into knowing, or I've just come to another idea. But your description about me as a seeker sounds quite accurate, I hope that you can provide with some more light to this.

[Leo Gura]

@OneLittleHumanMind Sounds like you might want to clarify what your goal or intention is with this meditation. What are you trying to know or understanding?

• What am I?
• What is reality?
• Why is there something rather than nothing?
• What is God?
• What is consciousness?
• What is love?
• What is another?
• What is the mind?
• What is ego?
• How do I end suffering?

You want to be clear about what insight you want.

What the fuck do you want??

If you want nothing then be clear about that and just sit in peace without effort (the do nothing technique).

Psychedelics help a lot too.

[cetus]

18 hours ago, OneLittleHumanMind said:

Can I really pull ahead of that endless loop?

@OneLittleHumanMind "I" is the loop.

[Mu_]

6 hours ago, OneLittleHumanMind said:

@Mu_ Thank you for replying.

Well, at this point, it's quite hard to define a destination I am aiming to, because on one hand I don't really see a destination, and on the other.. I know there's still something more. But this more I am pointing to, is not something substantial, or a state or a place. Everything I do in my everyday life lacks a stopping point, so I can't presume any longer that there's any. It's saddening to the mind, but I'm peace with it, and I just try my best to see what's this all about.

So, rather than looking for something, I'm looking deeper. I observe my trying, and I observe when I'm not trying. I watch what's there anyways, how a self can't do anything, so I somehow know that I always remain as nothing. But my suspicion is, whether I've really tapped into knowing, or I've just come to another idea. But your description about me as a seeker sounds quite accurate, I hope that you can provide with some more light to this.

Sounds like your on a honest inquiry into yourself.  What was your initial desire to do all this, even though now you seem to be touching into some wisdom of "hard to define destinations",  "Mysterious, non-state/place/something", "No stopping points", which makes the path harder to talk about (this is a good thing most likely). 

Also in terms of looking "deeper", what compels this, what is hoping to be found or understood?

These will help me better understand you and what may help you with where your at....

My sense is your onto something and are maybe about to have your mind blown, but I don't want to jump to conclusion.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Mu_

[Jack River]

4 hours ago, cetus56 said:

@OneLittleHumanMind "I" is the loop.

The i(loop) that wants to transcend “it” is the very mechanism consistently sustaining its own continuity. Thought is then transcending it’s own implicit limit continuously which brings about this incoherence of understanding. 

You can go into one particular question at a time, or you can see the whole of it all by holistically understanding thought/reality itself. You may see that it is all reality. The self looks at the whole of thought-reality as if that self is outside of it.

Is that true, or is the self(consciousness) contianed within thought-reality? 

Is everything thought thinks about reality? As in even the self that apparently stands outside as the thinker? 

 

 

 

 

[Sahil Pandit]

2 minutes ago, Jack River said:

The i(loop) that wants to transcend “it” is the very mechanism consistently sustaining its own continuity. Thought is then transcending it’s own implicit limit continuously which brings about this incoherence of understanding. 

@cetus56 Also, this "I" is never stable. It is heavily biased based on the emotion it is identified with. It could be identified as such one moment, and then a completely different "I" a moment later!

[Jack River]

Understanding the nature of thought as it is actually is the foundation. Everything is simple from then on. 

[cetus]

@Jack River The illusory nature of reality is everywhere the mind goes. Most won't leave home without it.

[Jack River]

Just now, cetus56 said:

@Jack River The illusory nature of reality is everywhere the mind goes. Most won't leave home without it.

Well said my man

[OneLittleHumanMind]

@Mu_

My very first recognition was that I can't continue living as an illusory self. It was a straightforward intention.

Now that my inquiry has evolved deeper, I desire the honesty even more. I want to know the most honest happiness they are talking about. And I'm not denoting than it wouldn't be subtly mine already, but I want to know for sure.

Well, what compels me looking deeper... Because I intuit that there's always something deeper. This has been shown me many times.

@Jack River

So you are suggesting that everytime I go for an idea of getting beyond the thought, I'm actually just ending up to thought again? And is everything that thought thinks about reality? Hmm. I'd say that nothing is, but for sure the thinking itself is, because it's happening. I'm quite certain that a thought can't point to anything, like an physical object can't point to anything but itself. 

It can be that I'm claiming a mind to be more prominent part of my conscious reality than it is. It's like another thought, of a mind, acting out an inescapable medium to reality, though I'm the whole reality to begin with. And I have had these awakenings, where I understand how everything originates from me, and it's like I can't sense that as a located feeling anymore, unlike so many of the other experiences.

Maybe it is that localization thing that maintains it all as a state or idea? 

Psychedelics I can't take, because I don't want participate in illegal activity here in yet very staid country 

[Mu_]

57 minutes ago, OneLittleHumanMind said:

@Mu_

My very first recognition was that I can't continue living as an illusory self. It was a straightforward intention.

Now that my inquiry has evolved deeper, I desire the honesty even more. I want to know the most honest happiness they are talking about. And I'm not denoting than it wouldn't be subtly mine already, but I want to know for sure.

Well, what compels me looking deeper... Because I intuit that there's always something deeper. This has been shown me many times.

@Jack River

So you are suggesting that everytime I go for an idea of getting beyond the thought, I'm actually just ending up to thought again? And is everything that thought thinks about reality? Hmm. I'd say that nothing is, but for sure the thinking itself is, because it's happening. I'm quite certain that a thought can't point to anything, like an physical object can't point to anything but itself. 

It can be that I'm claiming a mind to be more prominent part of my conscious reality than it is. It's like another thought, of a mind, acting out an inescapable medium to reality, though I'm the whole reality to begin with. And I have had these awakenings, where I understand how everything originates from me, and it's like I can't sense that as a located feeling anymore, unlike so many of the other experiences.

Maybe it is that localization thing that maintains it all as a state or idea? 

Psychedelics I can't take, because I don't want participate in illegal activity here in yet very staid country 

You sound like your on a genuine path to awakening so far.   And by the sounds of it, your doing fine so far.  I'd keep trusting your intuition and discovering the life lessons that are taking you along your intention.  In terms of your wondering if your maybe fooling yourself and your just still in more mind believing its now free mind?  Well unfortunately no one can tell you this for certain, this is between you and You.  There isn't a exam that gives you certificate of authenticity for this one.  But your words have honesty, humbleness and feel authentic from what I can gather.

Honestly though, why do you need to know either way?  Will it make you feel better knowing you accomplished what you set out for?  Or are the results you've found still not good enough?  Or if it were true what you've found would you want to then tell others?  Do you want to know if your ready to help others with what you learned?  Honestly feel and look into these questions, they may open up some things.....

Edited December 19, 2018 by Mu_

[Jack River]

2 hours ago, OneLittleHumanMind said:

So you are suggesting that everytime I go for an idea of getting beyond the thought, I'm actually just ending up to thought again?

Very simply.

 So we meet the moment to moment now with our psychological wants and needs(resistance to now as it is/what is).

This responding to the now with the old (thought) is a response of memory( “my” likes/dislikes & desire to self satisfy through those desire-likes/dislikes). 

When I project my desire(born of the past-memory) to end thought(self constructed image-images) onto the present moment, isn’t that the arising of the thought itself from moment to moment?

For me understanding holistically itself ends any current compulsive thought chatter and it becomes a natural response to not self project “future” thought projection as well. It’s to step out of the thought/self loop all together. Quite gnarly and simple, yet difficult for a desire seeking mind. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

2 hours ago, OneLittleHumanMind said:

And is everything that thought thinks about reality?

This will be answered by stepping out of that thought/time river. But you can also come close to what I mean by exploring thoughts nature.