Eckhart Tolle Enlightenment...damn

[ButlerMr Gleeson]

 

 

[nbolt]

previous discussion: 

 

[ButlerMr Gleeson]

this is to inspire ...I will be in this state of consciousness...I want it to bad to let it go...I know better now... already that I have been living a hell...a lie...a sham  ...man...

I will love and be at peace with all..taking action NOW is key 

[SkyPanther]

This is from a Buddhist perspective, so take it with that in mind, and discard it if it does not make sense: 

What he is describing is also the feeling I got after my experience.  The content/peaceful feeling, and a big reduction in mind sticking to bad states and not accepting them. The contentment/wholeness is always present, even in time of high stress it is always accessible. 

However that is not the "end" of the path, but only the beginning in Theravada Buddhism. It is the start of the ariya path, which are people, (monks or laypeople) who have attained one of the four levels of awakening (stream-entry, once-returner, non-returner, arhant) . The 4th (Arhant) is a person who has torn out all Greed, Hatred, and delusion and other fetters by the root, and is than considered "fully" awakened, or "Fully Enlightened".

The first step, which is what he seems to be talking about, is the state where you can see the ego entity as not "self" or not part of you.  The illusion is spotted. You still know there is a lot of bad habits to break.  But identifying the bad habits and changing them is made simpler because you are not attached to them as "this is who I am".

He(or the video creator) is calling it enlightenment; personally, I think it's just the first step after you have realized that "you" were already enlightened from the start, but have forgotten due to having all the conditioning of society, parenting and nature layered on top of you from birth (and past existence).  Enlightenment is not a destination, it is a realization of what you(and all of existence and nonexistence) have always been. 

Just my two bits.

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by SkyPanther

[ButlerMr Gleeson]

YKNOW WHAT! it is right that you can almost be enlightened from the start of life because you're just 'being' and you get conditioned to think a certain IDENTIFICATION with you're thoughts...quite fascinating and mind blowing really, I guess world view shattering for most but thats what it takes ti 'be' are people willing? they make a choice of how their existence looks...how will we?? 

I know I dont give to fcks about my ego, I want my ego to melt off..I want to just 'be' AND THAT IS WHY I AM ALIGNING MY LIFE THAT WAY NOW! oh man! exciting or what!?!?! : D 

higher consciousness values! ~ NOTHING COMPARES EVER : D

[SkyPanther]

1 minute ago, ButlerMr Gleeson said:

YKNOW WHAT! it is right that you can almost be enlightened from the start of life because you're just 'being' and you get conditioned to think a certain IDENTIFICATION with you're thoughts...quite fascinating and mind blowing really, I guess world view shattering for most but thats what it takes ti 'be' are people willing? they make a choice of how their existence looks...how will we?? 

I know I dont give to fcks about my ego, I want my ego to melt off..I want to just 'be' AND THAT IS WHY I AM ALIGNING MY LIFE THAT WAY NOW! oh man! exciting or what!?!?! : D 

higher consciousness values! ~ NOTHING COMPARES EVER : D

So here is something a teacher once told me. "Wanting your ego to die, is the ego talking."    Heh...  it sounds kind of counterintuitive (and I actually fall into this trap as well).

Think about it, if you want something to "die" it is because you have aversion to it.  So your ego has an aversion to itself because it can see it is "wrong" at some level, or hurting you, or because you were told that "ego death" is a "good" thing, so you want it to happen.

But the interesting thing is if I ask you "who wants it to die?", your answer would usually be something like "I do". 

"I" being the ego and its "I don't like it!" applying to itself.  Only this will never work, it is like a dog chasing its own tail. 

The best thing you can do is spot the things in yourself that are actually harmful, based on Greed, Hatred, or Delusion, and correct those. When that happens the "ego" vanishes, like a balloon popping... no dramatic "death".  

[ButlerMr Gleeson]

DAMN! that's so true!! blew my mind reading that.. Me wanting the ego to die is the ego( Me) wanting the ego to die.

WOW!  that makes 100% sense..I just need to work on the parts of myself not the (me) I have always identifies with but with my field of awareness, create permanent changes within my phyce with is what I (MY AWARENESS) am planning to do and have been doing, now! to 'be' at a state of no self and experience that first hand to discover my true existential nature of 'what' I am not 'who' I am...there is no 'I'

[SkyPanther]

2 minutes ago, ButlerMr Gleeson said:

DAMN! that's so true!! blew my mind reading that.. Me wanting the ego to die is the ego( Me) wanting the ego to die.

WOW!  that makes 100% sense..I just need to work on the parts of myself not the (me) I have always identifies with but with my field of awareness, create permanent changes within my phyce with is what I (MY AWARENESS) am planning to do and have been doing, now! to 'be' at a state of no self and experience that first hand to discover my true existential nature of 'what' I am not 'who' I am...there is no 'I'

Yes, another funny way of looking at it, is taking the "car" out of a car.

The ego, previous to you working on it, created habits, aversions and attachment to things it liked or disliked.   You (and almost everyone else as well) took those things and created an identity around them. "I like computers, therefor I am a computer nerd, that is who I am".

By taking the "car" out of a car, I mean, what part of a car is "car"?  Is there a single part of it that is actually something that gives it the essence of "car"? 

Or is "car" just a concept we created out of a coming together of various things, like engine, body, wheels, chassis, seats, etc, and then agreed. "This is a car!".  

Your mind is just like that.  It has created a concept of itself, a label, and attached it to all the things (memory, genetics, conditioning) you have as an organism. And says "this is who I am".  Only there is no "I" in any of the individual parts. 

[ButlerMr Gleeson]

BLOODY TRUE!!! I mean a 'car' is not a car in reality but a label assigned by language and now people associate them as a car when in actual fact it's just pieces of scraped metal put together...who's to say metal is 'metal' either actually..?

We are, you're totally right!oh man,...comprised cells as formed orgasms..not an identity?? I mean, it's low conscious Bull shit! when you really put it in to context!

total low-conscious habits of labeling things we see as outside of us (our bodies) we are not identified with it right? is our body us? no

are we the whole existential field of 'pure' awareness of reality, an observer, a perciever..hell yeah!

Edited April 11, 2016 by ButlerMr Gleeson

[nbolt]

22 minutes ago, SkyPanther said:

So here is something a teacher once told me. "Wanting your ego to die, is the ego talking." 

This is great . Such fickle little things, our egos are...

Edited April 11, 2016 by Neill

[Isle of View]

18 minutes ago, ButlerMr Gleeson said:

I mean a 'car' is not a car in reality but a label assigned by language and now people associate them as a car when in actual fact it's just pieces of scraped metal put together...who's to say metal is 'metal' either actually..?

In general the thing is what the thing is.

Words and labels have their use when we communicate with others. But why should I communicate in the form of words with ME? Just being present and aware will do the job of permeating the scene or the object.

Sometimes words are useful in a kind of "creative selftalk" and some kinds of "visualisations", though.

Edit: And of course in interactions with others. It's important to have a sound vocabulary in the fields you engage in. 

Kind regards, 
Chris

 

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Isle of View

[ButlerMr Gleeson]

OH MAN! so! so! so! so! so! sO! so! true! I cant feel any more passionate about this right now or my head may explode

 

You're right, i hear you...words are labels, noises our ears drums perceive from noise melody's in the voice box but they dont have ANY true existential 'meaning' . not in reality.

They just help us support and communicate and function in reality so it's good we have the ability to do all this..lets just now use it for it's greater good huh? high values, not worse outcomes the power of words and communication can create..we couldn't share this and understand other beings across the globe if it weren't for these words right here right.? human language that has been developed over many millenia..pretty swwweet really..we take it so will nilly for granted.. :L

[SkyPanther]

10 minutes ago, Isle of View said:

In general the thing is what the thing is.

Words and labels have their use when we communicate with others. But why should I communicate in the form of words with ME? Just being present and aware will do the job of permeating the scene or the object.

Sometimes words are useful in a kind of "creative selftalk" and some kinds of "visualisations", though.

Edit: And of course in interactions with others. It's important to have a sound vocabulary in the fields you engage in. 

Kind regards, 
Chris

 

 

 

 

This is right.  "when in Rome, do as the Romans do", meaning words and labels have real world benefit.  The computer, The internet, the car, etc, were all at some point concepts, and parts that came together to create what we know today.

They have value, and are meaningful.  The thing you have to remember, however, is that the words are not the "thing".  It is just a pointer to the thing. And sometimes pointers are just representations, stereotypes, or "best guesses".  So use them, but don't take them seriously.   Because they will change, as all concepts do. 

 

For example: 

This is the first car:

 

This is the state of the art car from today:

[ButlerMr Gleeson]

Damn..just proves right there that if you invision something wacky and unique to you deep inside.

society doesn't like it because it's not realistic to it and will never happen.

they most likely said that about the future of cars back when the first one started being more actively used.. 

our personal visualizations are what make the world think "oh look what that persons doing there! that's different! that's SO COOL!!"

like that..things are possibly right guys?

anything can be, cause we are all special and unique in what we can create on earth, what CAN be made possible and tangible..

[Isle of View]

13 minutes ago, ButlerMr Gleeson said:

OH MAN! so! so! so! so! so! sO! so! true! I cant feel any more passionate about this right now or my head may explode

 

You're right, i hear you...words are labels, noises our ears drums perceive from noise melody's in the voice box but they dont have ANY true existential 'meaning' . not in reality.

They just help us support and communicate and function in reality so it's good we have the ability to do all this..lets just now use it for it's greater good huh? high values, not worse outcomes the power of words and communication can create..we couldn't share this and understand other beings across the globe if it weren't for these words right here right.? human language that has been developed over many millenia..pretty swwweet really..we take it so will nilly for granted.. :L

Yes, very good.

I observed people for a long period of time and I found that people with a greater and more precise vocabulary are more successful and have better people-skills, more firends and better relationships. Because they understand, they can better relate.

As Socrates once said: "The beginning of wisdom is the definition of terms."

 

5 minutes ago, SkyPanther said:

They have value, and are meaningful.  The thing you have to remember, however, is that the words are not the "thing".  It is just a pointer to the thing. And sometimes pointers are just representations, stereotypes, or "best guesses".  So use them, but don't take them seriously.   Because they will change, as all concepts do. 

+1

 

Kind regards, 
Chris

 

[ButlerMr Gleeson]

That's it my friend! you hit the BIG ass nail in the head! awesome stuff!!!...

Language is the key to ALLL healthy, growing relationships socially, identifying necessary externals to identify, not ones self though...talk is very connecting ..in fact the MOST fundamental way to get you're feelings communicated and create a kick ass life, oh man! you got it buddy!

[Jonathan]

@SkyPanther It took me quite awhile to realize that EVERY thought is the ego. Every single thought no matter what vantage point, no matter what perspective, no matter how enlightening. All ego, all false self, all not Self. Very cool to see you point this out, a great reminder for many. 

[SkyPanther]

27 minutes ago, ButlerMr Gleeson said:

That's it my friend! you hit the BIG ass nail in the head! awesome stuff!!!...

Language is the key to ALLL healthy, growing relationships socially, identifying necessary externals to identify, not ones self though...talk is very connecting ..in fact the MOST fundamental way to get you're feelings communicated and create a kick ass life, oh man! you got it buddy!

And so here is the paradox.  Concepts and language are the things that propels society.  But it is also the thing that keeps beings stuck in Samsara.

It is a double edged sword.  The more concepts we create and proliferate, the more interesting (relatively) life becomes and the more apt we are to get attached to existence and desire for more life.

Look at it like playing a computer game where if you die, you start all over again in "now". If you really desire life, you will keep coming back in now for eternity, but "now" is relative as well, as is the universe, and the planet, and life.

The Buddhist path is for beings that are tired of the game.  They stop pressing "yes" to "continue". 

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by SkyPanther

[Isle of View]

15 minutes ago, SkyPanther said:

The Buddhist path is for beings that are tired of the game.  They stop pressing "yes" to "continue". 

I wouldn't say that.

I would rather say, the Buddhist path is for people who want to reduce (or end) suffering. (Some commit to a boddhisattva vow, going deeper into the game, expanding their own "burden" to all the sentient beings.)

Lot's of suffering is comming from the misuse of words and lots more from the misunderstanding of them.

I think you can be very awaken and still enjoy life and relationships.

23 minutes ago, SkyPanther said:

And so here is the paradox.  Concepts and language are the thing that propels society.  But it is also the thing that keeps beings stuck in Samsara.

Not necessarily, really.

The reason beings are stuck in Samsara is because they misdefine and mislable their surroundings in particular and the existence in general.

They live in their own creation, superimposing their misunderstandings on everything around them.

They keep on misrepresenting what is there with what they superimpose on top of it.

 

Kind regards, 
Chris

 

[SkyPanther]

18 minutes ago, Isle of View said:

I wouldn't say that.

I would rather say, the Buddhist path is for people who want to reduce (or end) suffering. (Some commit to a boddhisattva vow, going deeper into the game, expanding their own "burden" to all the sentient beings.)

Lot's of suffering is comming from the misuse of words and lots more from the misunderstanding of them.

I think you can be very awaken and still enjoy life and relationships.

Not necessarily, really.

The reason beings are stuck in Samsara is because they misdefine and mislable their surroundings in particular and the existence in general.

They live in their own creation, superimposing their misunderstandings on everything around them.

They keep on misrepresenting what is there with what they superimpose on top of it.

 

Kind regards, 
Chris

 

Right, but we are talking about beings that do not look past concepts. The mundane path of Buddhism, is, you are correct the reduction of suffering. This is also the secular path that people in the west practice. 

But the ultimate goal is liberation.  The Buddha called it "the heartwood" of his teachings.   Can read the Sutta on this here: http://www.wisdompubs.org/book/middle-length-discourses-buddha/selections/middle-length-discourses-29-mahasaropama-sutta

You can, and I do enjoy life... but at the same time I know it is ultimately meaningless beyond the meaning I give it, impermanent, and will come to an end, and with that suffering, disease, old age, etc. And ultimately it is unsatisfactory.  All of these are part of life and I fully accept them.  But that is also why I see material things as meaningless, or "empty".

Each of the steps of the Noble Eightfold Path has a "mundane" and "supermundane"(this is the heartwood) goal.

The Bodhisattva vow is taken, usually, by Tibetan Buddhists, Theravada Buddhists think this is foolhardy because only another Buddha can tell if you can actually fulfil the vow.  What ends up happening, the theory goes, is that some people might become future Buddhas, but some will not, and they will be stuck in existence till they either break the vow, or meet another Buddha that will tell them "Hey, you don't have the muster to fulfill this path, drop it!"

The Buddha we know, took 4 mahakalpas(which is the expansion and dissolution of four universes) to realize full enlightenment.

Of course all of this is kind of conjecture as we do not actually "know" if any of it is "true".  I do not remember my past rebirths, supposedly that comes as you remove more of the fetters, and become an Arhant. 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by SkyPanther