if everything is in the mind how do you go beyond your mind?

[isabel]

what does it mean to know something that is not thoughts?

or where is awareness if it's not in my mind?

is there anything beyond my own mind?

transcend the mind? what does that mean...

thank you

[SgtPepper]

to transcend is to see what you are without your mind's filter. don't focus on the content of your eye vision, what is your eye vision? look at the pixels, what is made of ? what is it all occurring in.

once you ask that, stop with the questions and become pure awareness, what is that? who are you behind all of the mind's filter.

Edited December 16, 2018 by SgtPepper

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, isabel said:

or where is awareness if it's not in my mind?

If you can observe the mind. That means you're seperate from the mind. It means there're two things. One is Mind and second is you who is observing the mind. 

 

[purerogue]

4 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

If you can observe the mind. That means you're seperate from the mind. It means there're two things. One is Mind and second is you who is observing the mind. 

 

You can say it like that, one is observer of observer. 

You can separate you from your mind, you will get detached from your personality in a way, you will see that personality acts on its own and thinks on its own , and it is not your doing, what conclusions you will take out of it is up to you. 

Edited December 16, 2018 by purerogue

[Aaron p]

@isabel "if everything is in the mind how do you go beyond your mind?"

Right...you need to be really clever when your looking into questions about enlightenment and such. For example you cannot believe that everything is a belief, because that itself is a belief. Be careful to make sure you don't believe anything anyone here says (that will be the biggest rut you'll get stuck in.) 

You are not meant to try to "go beyond your mind." It took me ages to get this down, super confusing at first. But just trust it. The ONLY kind of questions that will be beneficial for you (the real you) to ask are self enquiry questions in the present moment each time.

The whole idea is that you are that which does not change. Which is logical. If your shirt is removed, is your existence also removed? No. You are still there, even though your shirt is not there...therefore your shirt is not "You." It's that simple. And that's it! Anything more and your going off track. It's very tempting to *try* to attain the results of meditation because of how expansive and effective the results are. But DO NOT seek the results of enlightenment or meditation. ONLY enquire into *who* it is that desires the results. 

 

"There is no teaching, no teacher, no pupil. You are only here to find out who you are." 

- Papaji 

 

If you do anything more than this, you will find yourself moving off track. The kinds of questions your asking can be insighful but theyre not to do with enlightenment.

[Aaron p]

3 hours ago, isabel said:

1.what does it mean to know something that is not thoughts?

2.or where is awareness if it's not in my mind?

3.is there anything beyond my own mind?

4.transcend the mind? what does that mean...

1. I think what your asking here is what I refer to as "spiritual knowledge." When you are operating at the most basic levels of your own existence (i.e the experiential sense of just "being") you can use logic to determine that you are not that which you observe. The reason you need to use this "anti-knowledge" (so to speak) is because the observer cannot be observed. (A knife cannot cut itself, a fire cannot burn itself). Therefore you can acquire this negative-knowledge that I call spiritual knowledge. However this kind of knowledge is both the most necessary and the most dangerous. It's the most dangerous because it's so tempting to believe. Even though you know the answers to the question you ask yourself within self enquiry, you must allow your mind to answer with whatever it feels like. When your mind takes a snapshot/memory of the truth, you no longer have the truth...you have you memory of the truth. 

 

2. You cannot look at awareness and you cannot find awareness. You need to constantly revert back to the direct experience (always in the now), the *feeling* of being. That's your grounding. How you know your awareness is is seperate to your mind is by process of elimination. A typical enquiry into the mind (for me) goes like this:

"What am I?"

"I am mind."

"What part of my mind is me?" 

"All of it."

"Ok well let's pinpoint different parts then. Give me one part."

"The memory."

"If my memory, as a whole, were to fade away...would my existence also fade away?" 

[Observe the present experience of being]

"No, i would remain here."

"Therefore am I the memory?"

"No."

...

And this is what you do, you'll eventually realise (subconsciously) that your not your mind or body and that's enlightenment.

 

3. There's lots of ways you could shoot this question. And lots of ways you could answer it. You mind (ideologies) wrap around reality in real time, which means everything you look at in the present moment is tainted with false ideologies and it feels real. Also outside of the present moment, all you have is memories. Which arent reality either. But then you enquire into your own self to discover that your mind, body and whole existence is all being observed by you. There is nothing that exists other than consciousness. But it's important that you do not lean onto what I am saying as a belief during your spiritual practises.

4. Overcome the mind. But you do not overcome the mind by trying to overcome the mind ("trying" to overcome the mind, IS STILL THE MIND)

 

The only thing you need to concern yourself with is "who are you". Work on making sure your technique is perfect and you'll be on your way to death/enlightenment in no time.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Aaron p

[purerogue]

Observer can be observed, that is all the point of it , to see that you are not one who is thinking , feeling and doing , it is actual state of mind where you are separate in literal sense. 

Edited December 16, 2018 by purerogue

[Hellspeed]

4 hours ago, isabel said:

what does it mean to know something that is not thoughts?

or where is awareness if it's not in my mind?

is there anything beyond my own mind?

transcend the mind? what does that mean...

thank you

Tapping with the Heart in the subsconcious of reallity. 

[Leo Gura]

@isabel

Try a psychedelic and see.

Ideas are not going to explain this to you.

[ground]

12 hours ago, isabel said:

what does it mean to know something that is not thoughts?

or where is awareness if it's not in my mind?

is there anything beyond my own mind?

transcend the mind? what does that mean...

thank you

'Mind' can be understood to be 'ordinary mind' or 'mind-as-such'. 'Ordinary mind' is common mind or deluded mind that is guided by conceptuality and feelings/emotions. 'Mind-as-such' is the essence of 'ordinary mind', is 'ordinary mind' emptied of conceptuality and feelings/emotions and delusion, 'Ordinary mind' is like a veil concealing the fundamental nature of 'mind-as-such'. One may also say: 'Mind-as-such' is the gap between thoughts.

Awareness as it is understood in the context of enlightenement is an awareness that knows itself. This awareness is beyond time and location and is a feature of 'mind-as-such'.

To 'transcend mind' means to transcend 'ordinary mind' and means to be introduced to the nature of 'mind-as-such'. Having been introduced to the nature of 'mind-as-such' awareness lightens up.

Edited December 17, 2018 by ground