How is what I see “in real life” more “real” than what I see in my mind?

[kieranperez]

Maybe this is just a distinction I’m making, which I’m starting to intuit it is, but I got curious a few minutes ago when I was looking at a man I saw at a train station and then I had a mental image of him and then a question popped up “why would the mental image by less real than what I see with my so called eyes?” The substance is the same isn’t it? If I see a woman standing in front of me I say she’s real but if I close my eyes and hold that same image of her in “my minds eye” there seems to be an unquestioned assumption that that mental picture is somehow less real. Both arise in my awareness. 

Something I’m missing here?

[non_nothing]

The improved and common version of your question is what's the difference of dream state vs real estate. Since till you wake up from dream, it's all real you can't tell.

[ground]

On 15.12.2018 at 10:39 PM, kieranperez said:

Maybe this is just a distinction I’m making, which I’m starting to intuit it is, but I got curious a few minutes ago when I was looking at a man I saw at a train station and then I had a mental image of him and then a question popped up “why would the mental image by less real than what I see with my so called eyes?” The substance is the same isn’t it? If I see a woman standing in front of me I say she’s real but if I close my eyes and hold that same image of her in “my minds eye” there seems to be an unquestioned assumption that that mental picture is somehow less real. Both arise in my awareness. 

Something I’m missing here?

What you call 'unquestioned assumption' is the manifestation of delusion. It is actually not a conceptual/intellectual assumption in the first place but a sentiment/intuition that is inherent in sense perception as such. On top of that intuitive delusion there may then arise conceptual/intellectual assumptions or even assertions. So if sense perception is missing, like in conventional 'imagination', it may feel as if 'less real'. But both, sense perception and imagination, are equally empty of truth.

Edited December 17, 2018 by ground

[Angelite]

@kieranperez Oh wow, I am reading a book about the exact thing just now.....

[Frank89]

It is a big problem to differentiate one thing from another or learn to do it, just today I had a dream that I found funny when I woke up, but the sensations of that dream I still feel in my reality, then. How to differentiate?

[Nahm]

On 12/15/2018 at 4:39 PM, kieranperez said:

Maybe this is just a distinction I’m making, which I’m starting to intuit it is, ?? 

“why would the mental image be less real than what I see with my so called eyes?” Don’t assume what is ‘seen’ , nor ‘seeing’, is “real” either. “Real” is a duality and you were correct to begin with, that it is a distinction you are making. If you want a practice to draw this out some more, try to prove to yourself that you are alive. 

The substance is the same isn’t it? Yes.

If I see a woman standing in front of me I say she’s real but if I close my eyes and hold that same image of her in “my minds eye” there seems to be an unquestioned assumption that that mental picture is somehow less real. Both arise in my awareness. 

Something I’m missing here? No.

Now consider, what is the difference, between the house nextdoor existing when you are not directly aware of it, and a thought about the house nextdoor being there when you are not directly aware of it. Then brace for ego backlash. ??

 

[Hellspeed]

Heart sees everything. The mind only a fraction.