Zigzag Idiot and the ladder of Objective Reason

[Zigzag Idiot]

My path of Inquiry by its nature is offensive when articulated  to others.

Personality is pretty much synonymous with ego. American culture in general idealizes big personalities for the most part.

Realizing the nothingness of Personality is offensive to people identified with personality.

 

Actually my path is the cafeteria model but for the most part is Fourth way Self observation and Self Remembering. Blending with Diamond Approach work. ICHING for taking clues from the Cosmos , 20 minute Centering Prayer twice a day.

One thing that I'm trying to keep underneath everything is what Gurdjieff called  Kundabuffer. To me it seems like it deserves that degree of significance.

 

A formula that makes sense to me

Kundalini energy = Chi = Prana + absence of discipline = motorfuel for imagination and self deception

Kundalini energy / Prana + 3 centered awareness = Higher Consciousness / Objective Reason

3 Centered Awareness is Intellect and feeling working in harmony,  grounded through the human body.

[Zigzag Idiot]

I have respect and empathy for other warriors.

For several years I read Castenada for inspiration.

 

      You think about yourself too much and that gives you a strange fatigue that makes you shut off the world around you and cling to your arguments.
      A light and amenable disposition is needed in order to withstand the impact and the strangeness of the knowledge I am teaching you. Feeling important makes one heavy, clumsy, and vain. To be a man of knowledge one needs to be light and fluid.

 My acts are sincere but they are only the acts of an actor because everything I do is controlled folly. Everything I do in regard to myself and my fellow men is folly, because nothing matters.

Certain things in your life matter to you because they're important; your acts are certainly important to you, but for me, not a single thing is important any longer, neither my acts nor the acts of any of my fellow men. I go on living though, because I have my will. Because I have tempered my will throughout my life until it's neat and wholesome and now it doesn't matter to me that nothing matters. My will controls the folly of my life.

Once a man learns to see he finds himself alone in the world with nothing but folly. Your acts, as well as the acts of your fellow men in general, appear to be important to you because you have learned to think they are important.

We learn to think about everything, and then we train our eyes to look as we think about the things we look at. We look at ourselves already thinking that we are important. And therefore we've got to feel important! But then when a man learns to see, he realizes that he can no longer think about the things he looks at, and if he cannot think about what he looks at everything becomes unimportant. Everything is equal and therefore unimportant.

      We need to look with our eyes to laugh. When our eyes see, everything is so equal that nothing is funny. My laughter, as well as everything I do is real but it also is controlled folly because it is useless; it changes nothing and yet I still do it.
      One must always choose the path with heart in order to be at one's best, perhaps so one can always laugh.

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

Well, here I go again,,,

just a few minutes ago when I replied to the post by Winter, I thought I was on a thread out in the General discussion. I realize there is maybe a need for bit more space for one another in this section and I recently concluded that I need to give others more space here. That was my intention anyway. 

Not paying attention to where I was showed to me that I wasn't being mindful. So,, I messed up a little,,,

since  I'm outing myself I'll add that I'm a chaotic thinker. I'm not an orderly or organized thinker.

My composition is laughable sometimes also. Laughable or pitiful. Anyway,,,

 

By the way, I'm open to comments and questions.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Zigzag Idiot

[Zigzag Idiot]

On 12/19/2018 at 1:39 AM, tsuki said:

Are you familiar with the Enneagram?
Your video about 5 fools seems a lot like it. It gives no room to escape.
Too bad that it does not elaborate on the foolishness of the zero fool.
Maybe I am a zero fool and I can't see why it's foolish? (nevermind, I found another video!)
Here's a channel with good type descriptions. I'm a type six:

 

 

 

Excellent point just made on ego by Joesph Maynor. I'm glad it was brought up.

 

Ive got discussing type 6 on my mind. My chief feature, fear. 

The nature of chief feature is its illusiveness in absolute discovery. There's differing opinions on this, but type is often related to chief feature. Type 6 is divided into phobic or counter-phobic.

interupted,,,,

Edited December 26, 2018 by Zigzag Idiot

[Zigzag Idiot]

My know it all face is a part of the dilemma. 

My conditioned self wrapping itself to essence. Spiritual hijacking. Taking "credit" for states of Consciousness. The self importance tied to self image. Identification to internalized images. Internalized images that ego structures are built off of. So the necessity of becoming aware of  ,,, and dying to these ego structures. 

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

 I didnt give the link to the Castenada quotes the other day.

The guy with this website has removed the words of "The Teaching" from the Castenada books. Mostly the words of Don Juan Matus. 

Castenada was a trickster, but a genius about the human condition and describing in metaphor. William Patrick Patterson has made a good case regarding Castenada repackaging the Gurdjieff knowledge for his own work,,,

The stories are bullshit but the metaphors are pure gold for opening one up IMO.     It's an indulgence of mine

From A Separate Reality

http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan2.html

" You must stop talking to yourself. Every one of us does that. We carry on an internal talk. We talk about our world. In fact we maintain our world with our internal talk. Whenever we finish talking to ourselves the world is always as it should be. We renew it, we kindle it with life, we uphold it with our internal talk. Not only that, but we also choose our paths as we talk to ourselves. Thus we repeat the same choices over and over until the day we die, because we keep on repeating the same internal talk over and over until the day we die."

 

From The Power of Silence 

http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan8.html

Words are tremendously powerful and important and are the magical property of whoever has them. Sorcerers have a rule of thumb: they say that the deeper the assemblage point moves, the greater the feeling that one has knowledge and no words to explain it. Sometimes the assemblage point of average persons can move without a known cause and without their being aware of it, except that they become tongue-tied, confused, and evasive.

 

 There is a threshold that once crossed permits no retreat. Every sorcerer should have a clear memory of crossing that threshold so he can remind himself of the new state of his perceptual potential. One does not have to be an apprentice of sorcery to reach this threshold, and the only difference between an average man and a sorcerer, in such cases, is what each emphasizes. A sorcerer emphasizes crossing this threshold and uses the memory of it as a point of reference. An average man does not cross the threshold and does his best to forget all about it.

      What a strange feeling: to realize that everything we think, everything we say depends on the position of the assemblage point.
      The secret of our chains is that they imprison us, but by keeping us pinned down on our comfortable spot of self-reflection, they defend us from the onslaughts of the unknown.
      Once our chains are cut, we are no longer bound by the concerns of the daily world. We are still in the daily world, but we don't belong there anymore. In order to belong we must share the concerns of people. And without chains we can't.

What distinguishes normal people is that we share a metaphorical dagger: the concerns of our self-reflection. With this dagger, we cut ourselves and bleed; and the job of our chains of self-reflection is to give us the feeling that we are bleeding together, that we are sharing something wonderful: our humanity. But if we were to examine it, we would discover that we are bleeding alone; that we are not sharing anything; that all we are doing is toying with our manageable, unreal, man-made reflection. 

Sorcerers are no longer in the world of daily affairs because they are no longer prey to their self-reflection.

[Zigzag Idiot]

 

 Better use of time than reading Castenada would be to watch one of Leo's videos or a Martin Butler video now and then,,,

[Zigzag Idiot]

 

I love this!

You're real, man.

[Zigzag Idiot]

 

I have a friend who is from Saturn. She is kind of the serious type. Very responsible,,,,

[Zigzag Idiot]

I can't be quiet inside if my attention is dispersed.

To get into a 'collected state' means that all of my attention is collected. Also it means I need the ability to direct my attention and not let it be drawn, which is usually through emotions or that I fall into autopilot and my attention is dispersed continually and increasingly as more and more attention escapes my direction,,,

i cant become free from other people or have inner quiet if my metaphorical atmosphere has a whole in it. Maurice Nicoll used the term being hermetically sealed. I would update this metaphor to being teflon coated,,,

im not talking about being a stoic 'island to oneself' but really to the capacity for staying centered and being impartial.

Being hermetically sealed works better with the metaphor of us each having our own atmosphere. In an Ocke de Boer article he draws from another source where Gurdjieff gives an exercise for getting into the collected state.

In this, he grouches at Madame Desaltman who ended up carrying on Gurdjieffs work and living to be exactly 100,,, I think. She died in the 1980's

An introduction from Ocke:

Ocke:  Whatever I say about this will never be enough, but I will tell you what I think about this from my own experience and you will have to make your own disparity with that. To make your own disparity with something is to reconcile something from Reason-of-knowing to Reason-of-understanding. You need the Reason of knowing to receive an idea. You need your own individuality-data to reconcile it into your own understanding. Your understanding and real I are one, according to Orage. The expression of your own individuality needs to be third force of your life. The result of work is that knowledge becomes understanding.  To learn to get our two-natured system (planetary and astral bodies) accustomed to higher states, we have to learn to become collected. To get to a collected state is described in the Transcripts of Meetings by Gurdjieff from 1941-1946.  This collected state is the basis for learning to remember ourselves.  

Gurdjieff giving the exercise for a "collected state"

Gurdjieff: You must do an exercise to be more collected. Learn to collect yourself. Choose a good moment that seems propitious. Sit down let nobody disturb you. Relax yourself. All your attention - all your will is concentrated on your relaxation. You quieten your associations. After - only after, you begin to think..  Mme D: Yes. I try like that and I do not succeed.  Gurdjieff: Wait. Do not disturb me - do not interrupt me. You have never done like this. Your explanations prove it to me. After, when you have quieted your associations, only then, begin the exercise - consciously, with all your attention, all your faculties.  You represent to yourself that you are surrounded by an atmosphere. Like the earth, man also has an atmosphere, which surrounds him  on all sides, for a metre, more or less - to a limit. In the atmosphere the associations, in ordinary life the thoughts-produce waves. It concentrates at certain places - it recedes; it has movements according to the direction which you impart it.   This depends on the movement of your thought. Your atmosphere is displaced in the direction in which your thought goes. If you think of you mother, who is far away your atmosphere moves towards the place where your mother is. When you do this exercise, you represent to yourself that this atmosphere has limits. For example one metre and a half, shall we say. Then you concentrate all your attention on preventing your atmosphere from escaping beyond the limit. You do not allow it to go further than one metre or one metre and a half. When you feel your atmosphere quieted, without waves, without movement, then with all your will you suck it into yourself - you conserve yourself in this atmosphere. You draw it consciously into yourself. The more you can, the better it is. To start with, is very tiring.  That is how one must do the exercise. Afterward you rest yourself - you send the exercise to the devil. Repeat it afresh in the evening. This exercise is done especially to allow one to have a collected state. It is the first exercise. It is difficult to penetrate into yourself at the first effort. One must compel the atmosphere to remain within its limits - not allow it to go further than it should. It is the first exercise in order to have a collected state. This exercise I have given to everybody. No one has understood what is collectedness, nor given it any attention”...  

Ocke: This exercise was given by Gurdjieff for everybody, and it is the basis for learning to remember yourself and it is also the basis for learning how to sense and fill the body, which is extremely important if we want our atmosphere to be detached from other surrounding atmospheres. This detachment will make it possible to become free inside from other people. If we want to coat the higher in us we have to become free from other people. 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Zigzag Idiot

[Zigzag Idiot]

I like Ken Wilburs distillation down to just one line of development that runs through ego and trans personal line of development.

"Just one," he pauses for dramatic effect in interview - "Developing the capacity for 'disinterested awareness." His words.

Basically, what shores up the ego can then be used for metabolizing ego structures.

[Zigzag Idiot]

Ocke is not a guru. He has no spiritual egotism or spiritual materialism.  His down to earth way of relating helps reveal the practicality of his statements, such as: "Sometimes you have to go run and hide so you don't get pecked to death"

He embodies the wisdom of light heartedness.

As well as relaxing with the transrational.

Articulated well by Jana Dixon on her Biology of Kundalini website.

http://www.biologyofkundalini.com/article.php@story=RelaxingwiththeTransrational.html

We repress our guilt and negative emotions and then unconsciously project it back out onto the world. If we take things in a negative way, that points to the necessity for more processing.

Very few humans completely purify their emotional center. They're called Saints.

Saints are eaters of suffering.

I'm not a Saint. I'm going to go run and hide now.

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Zigzag Idiot

[Zigzag Idiot]

I've referred to Jana Dixons Biology Of Kundalini in a couple of posts. I had the book when I went through some of this turmoil.

i didn't read it through but only skipped around in it at the time. Sometimes rereading a certain topic or essay several times.

Anyone who clicks on it and looks at the variety of links which comprise this book will begin to see the scope of her work.

She's an entertaining character but so super-smart, I can barely follow in some spots. 

Really im rediscovering the book for myself.

From some of the posts scattered around lately, I felt compelled to paste something I just read earlier.

From her chapter Toxic Mind Theory

http://www.biologyofkundalini.com/article.php@story=ToxicMindTheory.html

 

The kundalini phenomena is so exaggerated and complex that parts of the experience obscure other parts. At the start of writing my book I was sure that kundalini was not involved in detoxification because the vividness of the psychic, creative, ecstatic and relational aspects of the experience obscured the neurological metamorphosis itself. Only after I had pieced together the framework of possible chemistry of metamorphosis did the large picture of neurological detoxification come into focus. Then I saw the many causes, signs and symptoms fall perfectly into place within a detoxification theory with its roots in infant development.
That our primary wiring continues to inpact us throughout our life is beautifully expressed in the following example of a woman I interviewed.

When I left home at 17 till the time my father died when I was 31, I went through cycles of anxiety that would build up till I went home to my parents, after which I would get sick. Like an addict I was using the negative chemistry of my parents relationship to force a detoxification crisis to relieve me of my anxiety; because the hypertonality my initial wiring was created within the context of that same toxic relationship of my parents. So I went through many cycles of hyperarousal/detoxification over this period. A kundalini awakening being a huge version of this same cyclic detoxification process.

After my kundalini awakening, although I am far from thriving in emotional regulation, I don't go through this anxiety cycling/neuro-detox process anymore, which means my brain has fundamentally restructured itself. The awakening was sufficiently catastrophic that the base hypertonality to my brain was changed so the synapses don't get so cluttered with metabolic debris...this means that my neurology is cleansing itself as fast as it is messing house, because my hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal axis is not set on permanent emergency mode anymore. All other factors being the same, if I had been given adequate loving skin to skin and eye to eye contact in infancy to build up a lush connection between my right orbital complex and my limbic brain, then my emotional regulation would have been stronger and I would not build up the enormous psychic tension that propels kundalini to awaken.”

Edited December 28, 2018 by Zigzag Idiot

[Zigzag Idiot]

Interesting idea about the suicide containers. If I had an advanced terminal condition of some kind with only a few months to live and a likelyhood of a lot of physical pain. Considering also my family and sparing them the trauma of dealing with my slow painful death. In some instances, to me the idea has merit. If it's at the point where I really feel a fast decline occurring.

We should have a right to sovereignty over our bodies.

Maybe have my rotting corpse mix with some kind of compound where by just throwing in some tomato seeds in a few months,,, little Eucharist gardens develop,,,, Commune with cousin Joe after death,,,,

 

Someone mentioned not editing their posts. That's a good one. Tough. That was a part of the deal in my last two Gurdjieff group online endeavors.

Good luck Leonid! Thanks for sharing and trusting us.

[Zigzag Idiot]

 

It seems like I get most of my 'downloads' from above while standing in a hot shower at the end of the day.

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

In today's world, man and woman must become equal, so too must time and space. We can no longer afford to live in a male dominated society, nor one that is dominated by time over space. Everywhere we look we see clocks, they are even manacled to our wrists. But where are the compasses?

The need for equality of space and time, the feminine and masculine powers, is confirmed by the scientific understanding of the necessary relationship between space and time. Einstein and other modern physicists proved that one cannot exist without the other, that time is relative and space is curved. Neither time nor space exist by themselves. In reality there is only the combination of both - space/time.

So too, the dominance of "Father Time" over "Mother Earth" must now end. The long lost rituals of sacred space must be renewed. To regain the sacred dimension of space in our time we must look beyond the religious festivals and rituals we know. We must turn to the earliest shamanic cultures of the earth.

From: http://www.chanceandchoice.com/course-overview/global-consciousness/

 

In Zigzag Idiots words-

Integration of both hemispheres indigenous culture rituals - Marriage of the Lakota and the IChing ,,,,,,

10 Directions Ritual for opening up the vertical dimensions integrated with the four elements/functions of consciousness 

Scale of Being from Crystal-mineral-plant-animal- Human - Spiritual Ancestors-nature spirits-angels-muses-God

 

 

E In the East, at Dawn the sun shines - heaven rises. It is the direction of renewal, of revelation and enlightenment by the spirit of creation. The Power of the East is Fire. In the I Ching it is the trigram of Awareness, the sign of heaven.

W In the West at dusk the earth rises. Eventually you will lie down for sleep in a horizontal position. The whole body is in touch with the earth. You relinquish all worries and thoughts of the day. Letting go and becoming empty makes you receptive. In deep sleep you receive and integrate the germs of light from all suns in the Universe, the stars. Integrate here means affirming. The Power of the West is Crystals' letting go and affirming. The correspondence is with the I Ching trigram Willing, which is also the sign of the earth. The West will clarify the attitude of affirming your existence and task on earth.

S South is midday. You need to shine as the sun at midday, to trust in yourself and others - to trust in Soul. You need the innocence of a child, forgetting the failures of the past. The spirit of the South bestows innocence and trust, attributes of plant-life trust in growth. In the course of the year the Southpoint is the winter equinox, the festival of the innocent child. The Power of the South is in plants, in Trees. In the I Ching the South is the trigram of Soul.

 N The North - thinking - relates us to the animal world, our teachers in strategy. The spirit of the North bestows wisdom and clarity, if our thinking surges from the polar star to merge again with its center. It is the wisdom in doing. Animals are the Power of the North. In the I Ching it is the trigram of Thinking.

C Center/Down. If you direct your attention to the four directions, and also to front-back-left-right, you will necessary center yourself. Five signifies your centered self and that of all others who are centered. In the esoteric traditions humanity is always identified with the number five. Its Power is the Sacred Earth. There is no I Ching correspondence.
Centered also means to be an axis between heaven and earth. But to become a co-creator of evolution you need the support of the spirits 6, 7, 8 and 9.

SE Six are the teachers of humanity, the Ancestors who paved the spiritual path up to the present. They make for a continuity in spiritual evolution of human history. In the South East everyone can discover and establish contact with his or her ancestors. To a musician it might be the spirit of Bach, to a mathematician the ancestral link might be to Pythagoras, to others it might be Albert Schweitzer, Jesus Christ, Moses, or whoever gives you strength and understanding to follow your own path. The ancestor you find will include you in the spiritual family and link you to the "Golden Chain". They paved the way for your special work on earth. They do not give you directions, you create your own, but they give you strength to pioneer your new link in the chain. The Power of the South East is the Ancestors. The I Ching trigram is Spirit.

SW Seven are the spirits of our physical world of incarnated existence: the Elementals. Here the elements - Earth, Air, Water and Fire - are part of our survival, our health, our daily activities and success. As with the seven chakras they represent our agents operating in three realms - Body, Soul and Spirit. On the dream level they are called Trolls - spirits of the soil (sensing) who maintain our existence; Dwarfs - spirits of the air (thinking) who help us to surmount obstacles; Fairies - spirits of the waters (feeling) who stimulate our power of wish and endeavor; Elves - spirits of fire (willing), of serenity and joy, who help us to celebrate life as a luminous dream. These Nature Spirits can give you courage to go forward into the unknown. The Power of the South West is the Nature Spirits and the trigram is Body.

NW Eight is in our world the principal of underlying consistency in the midst of change. It is the grid or underlying structure in which change takes place. This is the structure which remains constant while all else changes. We feel this as a deep desire for harmony, for participation in a kind of infinite stability. The spirits of the North West have been defined as angels or cosmic helpers who bridge the finite and the infinite. We contact them to base our transitory actions on the underlying eternal laws and thereby generate harmony in ourselves and our surroundings. It is the Power of Angels and the trigram of Feeling.

NE Nine are the Inspirers. They are the agents of change in the microcosm, the macrocosm, as well as in the human world of speech, action and experience. The combination of nine faculties generates all possible action and transformation. As Gurdjieff said, whoever understands the nine can do. The North East, which lies between the enlightening inspiration of the East and the wisdom of the North, conveys the ninefold actualizing inspiration by which we become co-creators in evolution. These inspirers were called the "Muses". They do not help, but they empower our ninefold faculty of actualization. It is the Power of the Muses and the I Ching trigram of Sensing.

C Center/Up. With the Ten we anchor our mind in the center. We are in communion with above and below, heaven and earth. We invoke the spirit of the "Man in the Universe". He is the archetype of the possible human, of humanity. He is the aspect of the divine in whose image we are fashioned, the mold. In the center we invoke the sacred unifying power. There is no trigram correspondence.

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

 This is an excellent ceremony for a group of friends, but can also be done alone. Mere curiosity will not bring you a profound experience of the primal powers. A real need and honest intent is necessary to unite matter and energy. If you are overwhelmed and disturbed by a cluster of problems, you might try this method to center yourself and call for cosmic assistance. With more experience you might add the other directions to the five discussed above and call all ten powers, adding the helpers of the SE, SW, NE and NW to the ceremony of the directions. Sincere utilization of this American ritual prior to a feast will transform a mundane party into a spiritual celebration that is uplifting to all. Drinking and talking before the ceremony is common to help you relax, but eating should wait until afterwards.

Also from http://www.chanceandchoice.com/course-overview/global-consciousness/

 

Zigzag Idiot- Based on Lakota Calling of the 10 Directions (powers)

Template for creating your own Spacial Ritual ,,,,

Edited December 29, 2018 by Zigzag Idiot

[Zigzag Idiot]

A piece of this mornings ICHING reading/divination.

This a revised ICHING that removes Patriarchal dominance and endorses feeling as necessary for a true balanced intelligence. 

Notice the use of the term 'cultural ego'.

http://hanna-moog.squarespace.com/books-more-1/i-ching-oracle

I got hexagram 1 changing line 4

from changing line 4 - second hexagram of 9 from which the following excerpt was taken.

I think there are free ebooks to be found, available for download 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by Zigzag Idiot
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[Zigzag Idiot]

 

Watched this today. Leo articulates how completely 'identified' we get.

The necessity of thinking for oneself.

Articulates 'identifying' with Internalized images.

Without using the phrase Cultural consensus trance he articulates the Cultural concensus trance/spiritual sleep

Presence of Being as Absolute Stillness

Peace: It is not an emotional state or merely the absence of conflict; it is rather the presence of stillness, which is an aspect of Essence. It is the Presence of Being as absolute stillness and calmness. This stillness is not experienced as dull or vague, but as an exquisitely alive kind of consciousness. Peace involves the cessation of the torturous ego activity, with its hopes, and desires, efforts and resistances. That is why it is often equated with ego death. Peace is actually both death and life in the same consciousness. 

Pearl Beyond Price, pg. 313

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by Zigzag Idiot

[Zigzag Idiot]

Yeah!

Leo mentions Ouspensky in this one. 

The Youtube just above, from Ted Nottingham, has been a student of 'The Work', as its called. Gurdjieff, Ouspensky stuff. Maurice Nicoll, who I've referred to and have quoted some worked intensely in France with Gurdjieff for a couple of years and then was a student of Ouspensky for many years in England.

Ocke de Boer is a Long time student and interpreter of Beelzebub's Tales To His Grandson, Gurdjieffs Magnum Opus.  I don't recommend trying to read 'The Tales'. Read first the students and modern students books on 'The Tales' and of Gurdjieff. That is, if your drawn to this. If not, don't.

I haven't made a dent in watching all of Leo's videos. 

I been hanging out with the Christian Contemplatives but I feel more at home here.

In a way, the Contemplative Christian Movement seems a little bit gravity bound by the vast numbers of Evengelical Fundamentalist Churches. Or as Robert deRopp phrased it, the "Judeo Christian guilt cults".

i think the future of Christian Practice will take the Modern and re-emerging Contemplatives 'discoveries' of Sitting Meditation and cultivating mindfulness. 

If if you want to try Gurdjieff, Read Meetings With Remarkable Men. Here's a sample about him trying to get through the Himalayas-

"The first thing next day, with the consent of our consciences, degenerated like those of all contemporary people and corresponding exactly to the requirements of Hell, we killed all the goats, which only the day before we had regarded as our sincere friends and associates in overcoming the difficulties of the journey.

After this admirable Christian-Mohammedan manifestation, one of us began to cut their meat into small pieces in order to roast it."

 

Anyway, Hooray Leo!

 

I'm only two or three years behind,,,,,

Edited December 30, 2018 by Zigzag Idiot